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From: pwk@ccice2.UUCP (Paul W. Karber)
Newsgroups: net.abortion
Subject: Re: The Status of the Fetus and Its Rights
Message-ID: <666@ccice2.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 15-Oct-85 22:30:57 EDT
Article-I.D.: ccice2.666
Posted: Tue Oct 15 22:30:57 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 19-Oct-85 06:46:06 EDT
References: <429@cmu-cs-spice.ARPA> <1546@pyuxd.UUCP>
Reply-To: pwk@ccice2.UUCP (Paul W. Karber)
Organization: CCI Central Engineering, Rochester, NY
Lines: 44

In article <1334@ihlpg.UUCP> tan@ihlpg.UUCP (Bill Tanenbaum) writes:

>Yes, you have stated this value.  But by stating that you feel fetus-killing
>should not be considered legal murder, you have deprived the fetus of its
>legal status as a full human being.  It is then still necessary to define
>a post-conception point at which the fetus gains its full legal humanity,
>i.e. its destruction becomes legal murder.  The whole crux of the most often
>stated pro-life argument is that conception is the most well-defined point to
>make this distinction.  You, and other pro-lifers who believe abortion should
>be a lesser crime than murder, have thrown away this argument.  Yet you
>still use this argument, not realizing its inconsistency with your position.
>If the fetus is an innocent human being, why should abortion not be murder?
>If the fetus is not an innocent human being, what is the legal meaning
>of the phrase "innocent human life" you keep using to justify your position?
>-- 
>Bill Tanenbaum - AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville IL  ihnp4!ihlpg!tan

If you have a child under the age of 18 you may legally take this
child over your knee and spank it.  If you cause injury to the
child the state of IL (but not the child) may bring charges of
child abuse against you.  If the child is over 18 and you spank
them they can bring charges of assault and battery against you.
Does that mean that before 18 that child does not have "legal
status as a full human being"?  Pro-life people have never said
that there is no difference between a child and fetus. Only that
there is not enough difference to justify killing it on demand.

Anyway, my dictionary defines murder as killing (a human being)
unlawfully and with premeditated malice.  I don't think any
women that has an abortion believes that she is killing a
human being.  There is no intent, no malice (malice is defined
as the desire to see another suffer).  I don't think any woman
would want to see her child or fetus suffer. (unless she is
a sickie) Manslaughter on the other hand is defined as the
killing of a human being without express or implied malice.
We still need to agree on when a fetus is a human being,
but I think that by the third trimester (at least) the
term manslaughter (womenslaughter?) applies.

-- 

Of course I could be wrong.

siesmo!rochester!ccice5!ccice2!pwk