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From: bird@gcc-milo.ARPA (Brian Wells)
Newsgroups: net.abortion
Subject: Re: Life of fetus vs. Life of mother?
Message-ID: <366@gcc-milo.ARPA>
Date: Wed, 23-Oct-85 14:20:21 EDT
Article-I.D.: gcc-milo.366
Posted: Wed Oct 23 14:20:21 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 25-Oct-85 07:26:35 EDT
References: <429@cmu-cs-spice.ARPA> <1546@pyuxd.UUCP>
Reply-To: bird@gcc-milo.UUCP (Brian Wells)
Organization: General Computer Company, Cambridge Ma
Lines: 82
Keywords: slavery
Summary: 

In article <795@x.UUCP> wjr@x.UUCP (STella Calvert) writes:
><>
>
>Note:  This is STella Calvert, aka mrswjr.
>
>In article <344@gcc-bill.ARPA> bird@gcc-bill.UUCP (Brian Wells) writes:
>>	Actually we weigh the life of the fetus ( or cell, whatever stage
>>it is in for that matter) against the choice of the woman.  The life of
>>the woman is usually not at stake.  I believe most of us have said that
>>we would respect the mother's right to life at the expense of the fetus
>>if indeed the situation was that serious.
>
>Where do you draw the line?  If I were a slave, would I have the right to kill
>my "owner" if that were the only way I could escape?  What makes one form of
>involuntary servitude different from another?
>
>The stakes are not trivial.  On one side, we have the belief that freedom to
>make choices IS the chief right inherent in being alive;  on the other, we
>have the assertion that my right to the life I choose is less than the right 
>of my unwanted tenant to enslave me for nine months.
>

	I have problems with any argument that compares pregnancy and
slavery.  If a man and woman exercise their sexual freedom and there is
a resulting pregnancy, it is not the fetus' fault.  The difference 
between the involuntary servitude of slavery and that of pregnancy is that
in pregnancy, you brought it on yourself, in slavery, someone captured
or in some way forced their control over you.

>I'm sure the pro-slavery faction of this discussion will argue that I'm not
>making any effort to see their point of view.  But that line of debate would
>degenerate into "You're another" if I didn't just unsubscribe.  I respect the
>decision of a woman who feels that her fetus's rights outweigh her freedom to
>decide when and whether to reproduce.  I have no problem with other people
>making different decisions than mine.  But I am sickened by the willingness of
>others to attempt to interfere with MY decisions.  When/if I stand before 
>god, I will thank <insert pronoun of choice here> for the wisdom to make my
>decisions, and the maturity to allow others to be different.  If god didn't
>want us to use our minds and wills, why were they built in (no, I don't want 
>to debate maltheism, free will, or any of those subjects right now).
>
>>	If the stakes were trivial we would not be speaking out against
>>abortion.  
>
>If the stakes were trivial, I would have unsubscribed months ago.  But maybe,
>just maybe, I can encourage a few people to respect other people's opinions
>rather than assuming that they have god's unlisted phone number.
>
>>	I seriously doubt that losing privacy will cost women their
>>lives.  They may have to adjust their lifestyles, but I count that as
>>nothing when weighed against the loss of the fetus' life in an
>>abortion.  I think you exaggerated a bit here.  	
>
>If I captured you and chained you in my kitchen to wash dishes, you might have
>to change your lifestyle, but I count that as nothing when weighed against the
>load of dishwashing I wouldn't have to do.  (Do I really _need_ a smiley?
>Well, maybe, since humorous acceptance of diversity is a scarce commodity in
>this group, so -- 8-))  Seriously, forcing a woman to bear a child she doesn't
>want is slavery, and I will die in a homemade abortion before I will be
>enslaved.

	If you captured me and chained me in your kitchen to wash dishes, that
would be slavery.  If I came into your house and allowed you to chain me in
your kitchen knowing that the only way I may ever survive or get out is to
wash your dishes, then it would not be slavery, just a risky move on my part.

>>James 1:5
>
>Liber AL I:42	. . . thou hast no right but to do thy will.
>
>BTW, if you want people to see your quote, insert it!  It's not that hard.

	I would rather all interested parties look it up.  That is not
very hard either.

>				STella Calvert
>				(guest on ...!decvax!frog!wjr)
>
>		Every man and every woman is a star.

							Brian Wells
James 1:5