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From: ems@amdahl.UUCP (ems)
Newsgroups: net.bio
Subject: Re: Suffering and CNS
Message-ID: <2120@amdahl.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 17-Oct-85 13:13:42 EDT
Article-I.D.: amdahl.2120
Posted: Thu Oct 17 13:13:42 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 19-Oct-85 06:07:38 EDT
References: <2375@sjuvax.UUCP>
Distribution: net
Organization: Circle C Shellfish Ranch, Shores-of-the-Pacific, Ca
Lines: 46

> Advocates of vegetarianism often appeal to a general moral principle
> that proscribes the unnecessary infliction of suffering.
...
>                                                   In particular, do we
> have very much understanding of how developed a central nervous system
> an organism would have to have to be capable of suffering?
> 
> I am no biologist, but I imagine that the nervous systems of mammals
> are sufficiently similar to permit the inference that the none are
> spared the experience of intense pain.  But what about fish?  Are the
> structures which are involved in pain in mammals even present in fish?
> As I understand it, fish "brains" are quite rudimentary, amounting to
> little more than a large ganglion.

I have over 200 gallons of aquarium in my house.  These are populated
with dozens of individuals from several species.  They demonstrate
behaviour consistent with the belief that they feel pain and
suffer.  All aquarists loose some fish from time to time.  Watching
one slowly die gives ample oportunity to watch distress behaviour,
confusion, anxiety, etc.  When I first started raising fish I thought
of them as cold, wet, dumb things.  I now think of them as warm
(tropicals! 82 degrees!), wet, inteligent friends.

The most startling experience for me was to discover that fish
will yawn and stretch when sleepy/bored!  I have watched this behaviour
many times and it is unmistakeable.  They may be more primitive than
we are, but perhaps we have more in common with fish than we have
suspected.  They show many of our social behaviours, including
friendship formation, aggression, teritoriality, even mating
for life in some species.

Most of these behaviours show wide variation in incedence with
species.  Goldfish (big ones, about 500 grams) and Oscars are
my favorite for complex behaviours.

Chickens may be dumb, but all fish are not.  BTW, I still eat fish.
I just feel more guilty about it now ...

-- 

E. Michael Smith  ...!{hplabs,ihnp4,amd,nsc}!amdahl!ems

'If you can dream it, you can do it'  Walt Disney

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