Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site lsuc.UUCP Path: utzoo!lsuc!jimomura From: jimomura@lsuc.UUCP (Jim Omura) Newsgroups: net.micro.68k Subject: Re: Re: Re: Info on OS9 Operating System Message-ID: <837@lsuc.UUCP> Date: Tue, 8-Oct-85 19:30:41 EDT Article-I.D.: lsuc.837 Posted: Tue Oct 8 19:30:41 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 8-Oct-85 19:54:39 EDT References: <347@wlbr.UUCP> <9500001@datacube.UUCP> <126@mcrware.UUCP> <275@graffiti.UUCP> Reply-To: jimomura@lsuc.UUCP (Jim Omura) Organization: Barrister & Solicitor, Toronto Lines: 82 Summary: Hardware MMU In article <275@graffiti.UUCP> peter@graffiti.UUCP (Peter da Silva) writes: >> hardware but on the lower end (under $5000). Any system that is capable Actually, as I think I've said, OS-9 has advantages over real Unix well above the $5,000.00 range. You software developers have really funny notions about end users. We end users need lots of memory. Unix eats memory for breakfast and asks for more. My law practice needs at least 20 meg. of disk and 256K for really unrestricted use of OS-9. If I had Unix with that much I'd be back in the same position I'm in now. I don't believe that an end user in my position could use a Unix system with less than about 1 meg. of RAM and 40 - 60 meg. of disk online. Unix overhead is fairly large even if you offload a lot of the unused stuff. But the real problem is that you may find you *need* some of the stuff you presumed was surplusage for later software. As such, even if you think you have an adequate system now, with a small change in software you could find out that you've doubled your minimum and comfortable system levels soon after. My current experience leads me to believe that a system developer can get away with using a much less capable system than an end user. He may *choose* to have a bigger system, but he could easily get by without. >> of running UNIX requires 1) hard disk(s) and 2) memory management. Both > > 1) False. HP put out a very nice little machine called the Integral > that not only doesn't need a hard disk, but doesn't really work > well with one. Maybe. Hard to define "nice". > > 2) True, but... I don't want to do serious work on a machine without > an MMU any more. It's so frustrating... even sickening... to watch > a lost pointer or bad copy of foocalc blow away everything & write > garbage over a:\*.* OS-9 checks CRC before executing. It hasn't got anything to do with *needing* an MMU (I'm not saying MMU's don't help ... ). Other protection schemes can also be added. Gimix OS-9 has protection. > >> of these elements fix the minimum cost for the system at a relatively >> high base value. Consider one floppy disk and no memory management, the base > >Why is an MMU that expensive? > >> cost for the machine drastically drops into the affordable range. >> Unfortunately, UNIX can't be squished enough to operate on such a >> configuration. This is where OS-9 comes in. > >Sure can. Xenix, Venix, and PC/IX all run without an MMU, apparently quite >well. HPUX runs without a hard drive, and I'd use it if the Integral didn't >have a typical Hewlett-Packard price tag. Neither seem to be necessary for >UNIX. (you forgot QNX too, but that's another matter) Take the Tandy 6000 for an example. With the same hardware, an OS-9 would allow me more disk space and more user memory space. Some applications might even run a bit faster (unlikely that any would run slower). For a small time user like me (1 man law-firm) and up to say a 20 man lawfirm, I can't see what advantage Unix would have. Lawyers are *not* made of money. Other end users would probably prefer OS-9 too if they knew what the real choice was. Don't you think it's time you guys got out of the ivory towers and thought about what end users need? > >Personally, I don't care whether it's called UNIX, Xenix, OS/9, or Intuition. >Just so long as I can run rogue on it :->. Good point. I've never used 'rogue' but I hear it's good. -- James Omura, Barrister & Solicitor, Toronto ihnp4!utzoo!lsuc!jimomura Byte Information eXchange: jimomura Compuserve: 72205,541 MTS at WU: GKL6