Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site decwrl.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!ucbvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-vaxwrk!praetorius From: praetorius@vaxwrk.DEC Newsgroups: net.micro.amiga Subject: task whacking, developer's kit Message-ID: <948@decwrl.UUCP> Date: Mon, 21-Oct-85 14:57:18 EDT Article-I.D.: decwrl.948 Posted: Mon Oct 21 14:57:18 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 23-Oct-85 03:38:27 EDT Sender: daemon@decwrl.UUCP Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 113 Length: short first part (15 lines) ; long, high temperature second part (~90) I have found that when I run the following ABasiC program (taken from an originally meaningful context but now reduced to absurdity), 10 Def FNa$(i%) = Str$(i%) 20 Print FNa$(-1 \ &H1000000) I get a requester complaining about task held. The shell (if you want to call it that) in my other screen still works, but I haven't yet found the command for eradicating my ABasiC task. If I tell the requester to retry, it comes right back - if I tell it to continue, it zeroes my uptime the long way. (I've reported both bugs to . . .!pyramid!amiga!support). Any suggestions from people with development kits? Robt. P. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LATOUR::BANKS "Dawn Banks" 21-OCT-1985 11:27 Subj: FLAME.TXT Forwarded-by: me again On the subject of getting a developer's kit: I called Amiga (or was that Commodore? (anyway, it was that tech support number ending in something like 9180)) last week, and asked about getting documenta- tion and/or developer's kit. At first, the person I talked to wasn't sure what I wanted, then wasn't sure if anyone was in who could answer the question. After being left on hold for about 5 minutes, they finally got back on, and tried unsuccessfully to transfer the call two or three times. After no success at that, they told me that the responsible person wasn't there, and that I should try later. I asked for a name to ask for when I called back, and got an "I don't know" back. Then, they asked me for my name, and transferred me to someone who did seem to know what a developer's kit was. The conversation went something like: Me: Hi. I'd like to get some documentation at the minimum, and a developer's kit if possible. How much money do you want, and where do I send it? Amiga: Wait! First, have you sent us a letter? Me: No, because I don't have an address to send it to yet. What letter? Amiga: You have to send us a letter telling us what products you have successfully marketed in the past, what you think you're going to sell for the Amiga, and why it'll be different from everyone else's product. Me: Is it possible to get any documentation without such a letter? Amiga: No. Me: Well, that sounds nice, but I/we aren't in this to sell anything. Perhaps if I wrote something really neat I'd try to sell it, but it ain't on the horizon. Amiga (sounding a bit edgy): Well, you can't have a developer's kit then. Me: How about any documentation? Amiga (starting to sound mean): No. Me: Well, what am I supposed to do with this machine then if I have no documentation or software tools? Amiga: What do you mean? Isn't Basic good enough? Me: No. I like writing assembly language. It's a hobby. I also like writing terminal emulators. I have this machine that I'm all set to write a VT-240 emulator for, and nothing to do it with. Trying to write assembly code with a Basic interpreter is tedious to say the least. Amiga (very hostile by now): Well, if you're not out to sell software for the Amiga, you have no business getting a developer's kit. That software isn't for end users. Wait a few weeks, and your local dealer might have a subset of the documentation from the Developer's kit. Me: How about an assembler? Amiga: I don't know. I guess the reader can glean from this dialogue that I'm not entirely pleased with Commodore's attitude towards their users. Frankly, I don't understand why companies are so hesitant to take your money away from you anymore, and this is just another example. Had I been the one who plunked down the bucks for this machine, I'd be raising h___ with Commodore right now, but as it is, my significant other (who seems perfectly happy writing disassembler hacks in ABasic) is the one who paid for this, and seems perfectly happy starting at ground zero. So, for the time, we get to read disassembled versions of some of the system utilities, and try to figure out how the operating system interface works. Very tedious at best, but at least we can blab to our heart's content about anything we find out, since we didn't sign any non-disclosure agreements (presumed procedure for obtaining a developer's kit), and it doesn't say anything about not doing that in the documentation we did get. If I get too frustrated with this, and if the subset which is to arrive in the stores soon doesn't cover everything the developer's kit does, I may be inclined to copy some anonymous developer's documentation, make up a nondisclosure agreement and send it to Commodore with $300 or so. I don't want to do anything blatantly illegal, but I really don't understand why Commodore seems to want to keep useful information from their end users. Dawn Banks ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (DEC E-NET) VAXWrk::Praetorius (UUCP) {decvax, ucbvax, allegra}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-vaxwrk!praetorius (ARPA) praetorius%vaxwrk.DEC@decwrl.ARPA