Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site psivax.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!ihnp4!qantel!hplabs!sdcrdcf!psivax!friesen From: friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) Newsgroups: net.origins Subject: Re: Extinction and Ted Holden Message-ID: <783@psivax.UUCP> Date: Tue, 8-Oct-85 15:23:27 EDT Article-I.D.: psivax.783 Posted: Tue Oct 8 15:23:27 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 12-Oct-85 21:24:16 EDT References: <390@imsvax.UUCP> <1802@psuvax1.UUCP> <242@3comvax.UUCP> Reply-To: friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) Organization: Pacesetter Systems Inc., Sylmar, CA Lines: 75 Summary: In article <242@3comvax.UUCP> michaelm@3comvax.UUCP (Michael McNeil) writes: > >So you think *bison herds* are safe to hunt, do you Ted? Can I watch? >(There is solid archeological evidence that entire herds of bison were >driven off cliffs en masse. Only weeks ago Ted was arguing that this >was an impossible, idiotic idea for our ancestors to have performed. >But was it *safe* to hunt bison? Of course not! Probably the only >people who ever hunted bison *safely* were those who shot them from >American transcontinental railroad trains during the last century!) Actually, even that was not entirely safe, Bison herds have been known to derail trains! > >No, I'd say it's the present-day idiots who think that "there were always >deer and cattle and buffalo and rabbits and ducks nearby." Which world >are *you* living in, Ted? (Or was it the Garden of Eden?) There are >dry seasons, droughts, animal migrations, changing climates, etc., etc. >This was the ice age! It's ridiculous to suggest that, "Oh, They could >have picked up food anywhere -- why go out and work for it?" A mammoth >is virtually a walking treasure-house of meat -- as even *you* realize: > Also, even where they are present, such animals as deer are not necessarily that common. When I lived back east(actually in the midwest) I spent much time walking in a number of forested nature preserves where I KNOW there were deer, I saw the tracks by water, but I *never* saw a wild deer. I also know that modern deer hunters often take several days to get *one* deer. Believe me, after weeks subsisting on squirrels and sparrows, you would do almost anything to get a substantial meal, including attack a mammoth or a bear. Look what the plains Indians did to ensure a steady supply of Bison meat, they gave up fixed homes and took to following th herds around! >(A history I rather like reported on the fact that most people in ancient >Sumer ate only bread and onions. In an invented conversation, one person >asks another, "Don't you ever get tired of onions?" The other looks at >him blankly for a moment, then wonderingly replies, "Get tired of food?") > Nice point. >> >> The problem is that YOU do not know how to hunt. A Masai brave hunts >> alone a lion with his spear and knife only. Pigmies kill elephants. >> Eskimo were killing whales with their stone-age tools. Primitive >> people were as intelligent as you, and they were spending generations >> polishing their hunting technics. Not the firepower but the cunning >> tricks and deep knowledge on animal behavior were the effective >> weapons. [PIOTR] > >Ditto, in spades! Aren't you the mighty hunter, Ted! (Talk about >ivory towers!) In case you weren't aware of it, Ted, archaeology and >anthropology are *experimental* sciences nowadays. Scientists have >learned how to make and use these tools, not by theorizing about them >("Figure things out logically with no further ado" -- isn't that your >motto, Ted?), but by chipping the stone, throwing the spear, skinning >the animal, *doing what our ancestors did* to find out how they lived. > There is even a Time-Life(I believe) book which has a pictorial on how to make stone tools! You know what I find absurd is scenes like the opening scene in "Raiders of the Lost Ark" where a few hundred natives are chasing the hero and throwing spears at him and *missing* all the time. No way! If they were that poor a shot they would starve to death! See below. >As far as "Alley Oop" goes, Ted, you're not giving your own ancestors >credit for possessing the *same* talents which *present day* stone-age >peoples display, when they perform the very feats that you, theorizing >in your easy chair, say *can't be done*! You're on pretty shaky >ground, Ted! People are *doing* that which you claim is impossible! > -- Sarima (Stanley Friesen) UUCP: {ttidca|ihnp4|sdcrdcf|quad1|nrcvax|bellcore|logico}!psivax!friesen ARPA: ttidca!psivax!friesen@rand-unix.arpa