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From: clewis@mnetor.UUCP (Chris Lewis)
Newsgroups: net.origins
Subject: Re: McNeil on Extinction
Message-ID: <2410@mnetor.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 16-Oct-85 09:26:03 EDT
Article-I.D.: mnetor.2410
Posted: Wed Oct 16 09:26:03 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 16-Oct-85 11:25:56 EDT
References: <432@imsvax.UUCP>
Reply-To: clewis@mnetor.UUCP (Chris Lewis)
Organization: Computer X (CANADA) Ltd., Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Lines: 82
Summary: 

I don't know why I bother, but here we go again...

In article <432@imsvax.UUCP> ted@imsvax.UUCP (Ted Holden) writes:

No large animals in Siberia Ted?  Ever heard of a Polar bear?  Siberian
Tiger?  Caribou?  Arctic wolves?  Reindeer?  Bears?  Has it ever
occured to you that a Woolly Mammoth was woolly precisely because it
was COLD?  In fact, they probably couldn't survive long in warmer
climates because they would overheat (remember the volume/surface area
calculations you were so fond of?) Sure it gets down to -100F every
once in a while, it gets close to that in the Canadian Arctic.
[ notice where this posting is from Ted!  We know what "cold" is like.
We occasionally get temps as low as -50F plus windchill factors of -80F
or lower in Toronto.  It's a hell of a lot colder farther north. ].  

Herbivorous animals can survive in such areas precisely as they do in
Canada or the Northwestern US.  That's what their fur is for Ted.  It
doesn't snow much (it's too cold for it) in the far north of the USSR
or Canada.  This allows grazing animals to get food by digging through
the snow.  As they do in winter all through the northern US and
Canada.  And the herbivorous animals migrate Ted.  They leave the area
before it gets really cold.  But the polar bears and wolves stay, Ted.
They burrow into the snow.  The larger herbivorous animals can do the same
(or keep together to conserve heat) too if they are caught by early
snows.  Even when it gets down to -80F or lower.  Mammoths weren't made
out of rubber Ted, so there's no danger of them shattering.  

In fact, there is a much simpler explanation for the mass Mammoth dieoffs 
than some ridiculous overnight climactic change brought on by Velikovskism.
Does the term "winter kill" mean anything to you?  The term, Ted, means
that animals have been caught by a heavy snowstorm (and probably freakishly
early if the animals migrate) and that the snow is too deep for them to
dig through.  Hence they starve.  It happens all the time even now.  Every
once in a while you hear of deer herds starving because of snow depth and
frequently the wildlife services airlift food in for them.  

Mass dieoffs is NOT a sign of catastrophism Ted.  There's usually a much
simpler explanation.  15,000 caribou died during their migration last spring
in one place.  It wasn't due to planets in collision, or 48 hour days or
divine intervention.  They drowned.  In a flash flood.

Another thing, Ted, is that animals would have an easier time of it in
Siberia than in Northern Canada [which, even you must admit, has lots of 
large animals].  The growing season in Siberia is typically on the order
of 3 to 5 months.  In northern Canada the growing season is usually MUCH
shorter (6-8 weeks).  This is because the northern Canadian climate is
"moderated" (if you consider -50F moderate) by the nearby Arctic ocean
and doesn't change much.  In Siberia the prevailing winds are East to West
and thus is not moderated much by the ocean.  Summer temperatures get
right up into the 70's.  In Siberia they have hardwood forests (and of 
course, coniferous too) right up to the shores of the Arctic ocean.  They 
can EVEN GROW CORN up there!  In contrast, Northern Canada is frozen mud 
most of the year, and swamp the rest.  There are NO trees within a thousand
miles of the Arctic ocean in Canada.  Hence, even mammoths would have 
enough to eat.

One very readable reference: Sibir, by Farley Mowat.

Besides, "uniformitarian" [what in the hell does this term mean Ted?  I've
never heard it before] Science has a perfectly reasonable AND PROVEN beyond
any doubt mechanism for long term climactic cycles.  Have you heard of
polar precession Ted?  The Earth is wobbling on its axis with a period of
26,000 years.   13,000 years from now the pole star will be Draconis NOT
Polaris.  This is observable, measurable, and fits with ancient astronomical
observations.  And, it means that the Earth's equator-Sun angle changes.
So the winters and summers slowly change in a 26,000 year cycle.
Ice-ages not explainable Ted?  Obviously you don't know anything about the
subject.  Nobody could write a PH.d. thesis on it because it already HAS
been explained.  Quite thoroughly.  And, there's no way on earth Velikovskianism
can possibly explain the geological evidence contained in just one area:
Peterborough, Ontario (less than 50 miles north of here).  I'd love to
see Velikovsky explain drumlins, eskers, kame moraines, kettles and the
finger lakes (Peterborough and New York State versions).

Carbon-14 dating not accurate before 700 BC Ted?  Because of the catastrophe
Ted?  700 BC ?  Don't be silly, there was NO global catastrophe in 700 BC.  
Historical evidence of it wouldn't be mythical, it would be factual and
obvious.
-- 
Chris Lewis,
UUCP: {allegra, linus, ihnp4}!utzoo!mnetor!clewis
BELL: (416)-475-8980 ext. 321