Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site spar.UUCP
Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!decwrl!spar!ellis
From: ellis@spar.UUCP (Michael Ellis)
Newsgroups: net.philosophy,net.religion
Subject: Re: a cross-posting request
Message-ID: <574@spar.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 8-Oct-85 02:53:43 EDT
Article-I.D.: spar.574
Posted: Tue Oct  8 02:53:43 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 9-Oct-85 07:00:45 EDT
References: <244@frog.UUCP> <1047@umcp-cs.UUCP> <2079@sunybcs.UUCP> <129@oberon.UUCP>
Reply-To: ellis@spar.UUCP (Michael Ellis)
Organization: Schlumberger Palo Alto Research, CA
Lines: 30
Xref: linus net.philosophy:2547 net.religion:7523

>> Let all philosophers own up to their beliefs or else admit that knowledge
>> (and philosophy) is impossible.
>
>Pardon a late follow up:
>
>Faith/belief can be based on reason and fact. I beleive (have faith)  that if
>I pick something up and let go of it, it will fall.  Whether religions have
>any basis in fact and reason is another question.  A philsophical system can
>be based on many things but if it is to be rational shouldn't it have a basis
>in observable fact? -- Michael D. Walker (Mike)

    On the contrary, purely rational systems are true independently of
    any observation whatsoever. 
    
    Why is 1+1=2? Why does A&~B <=> ~(~A|B)? Why is the sum of the angles
    in any Euclidean triangle invariably 180 degrees?

    Not because they are observable facts, although the utility of such
    totally certain facts derives from their applicability to physical
    laws. Sure, 1 rock plus 1 rock equals two rocks. But 1 cloud plus 1
    cloud often equals 1 cloud. And 1 rabbit plus 1 rabbit may equal thousands
    of rabbits. Nonetheless, we do not consider that such observable facts 
    contradict mathematics.

    In fact, we usually assert that math and logic are true in any
    conceivable universe. Science, whose central axiom is empirical
    induction, IS a religion from the purely rational viewpoint, for which
    mathematics and logic represent the highest level of certainty.

-michael