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From: baba@spar.UUCP (Baba ROM DOS)
Newsgroups: net.philosophy
Subject: Re: Science & Philosophy vs Rosenism (Materialist Moral Philosophy)
Message-ID: <609@spar.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 22-Oct-85 01:27:27 EDT
Article-I.D.: spar.609
Posted: Tue Oct 22 01:27:27 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 24-Oct-85 01:15:23 EDT
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Organization: The Institute of Impure Science
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> Hmmm, this is an intriguing proposition.  The internal state, having gotten
> to be the way it is (with indoctrination and conditioning leading that
> internal state into various forms) is "responsible" for anything it does
> despite the fact that it is not responsible for becoming the way it is,
> which may mean a state in which it is unable to make reasoned decisions.
> I call this proposition a vacuous assertion. [Rich Rosen]

Why?  What's the rosenist definition of "responsibility"?  Does it require
a soul or something?  Responsibility is accountability, a measure of 
participation in a causal chain.  Don't you believe in causality?

>                                                   If a person has learned
> through religious indoctrination or any other means to be unable to make
> conscious rational decisions, if they have not learned such methods for
> making such decisions, how on earth could a reasonable thinking person
> hold them responsible?

If your thesis of materialistic determinism is correct, it can hardly
matter whether a person is capable of reason or not.

>                   Obviously a lot of people want to do so, because
> that enables them to engage in various forms of blame and punishment for
> wrongdoing.

As long as you're interested in talking about motives, Rich, do you take 
pleasure in punishing people?  Did your parents? You seem to have this 
strange vision of the world as an endless sea of sadistic disciplinarians.
Or is it important to you to feel free of responsibility for something you 
have (or haven't) done?

						Baba