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From: cooper@pbsvax.DEC (Topher Cooper HLO2-3/M08 DTN225-5819)
Newsgroups: net.philosophy
Subject: Re: Rosen on Parapsychology.
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Date: Tue, 22-Oct-85 19:01:14 EDT
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Posted: Tue Oct 22 19:01:14 1985
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SUMMARY: Rather than the usual multilevel quotations I will attempt to
summarize.  If anyone thinks I have summarized incorrectly then I will gladly
re-post the original.

ROSEN -- tells a story about Steven Hawking who discovered that some ostensible
paranormal effect which he studied disappeared upon enforcement of scientific
rigor (I guess that means controls).  "Of course, there are always those who
will claim that scientific rigor contributes to an atmosphere of disbelief
in which such phenomena cannot appear."

I -- indicated (over several exchanges with others) that I thought that the
statement was a straw man, since I did not think that it was likely that any
parapsychologist had ever said it.  Since the context was about scientific
evidence, psychics and the statements of other non-parapsychologists seemed
irrelevant.  I pointed out that complaining about specific controls as
inappropriately interfering with the process was not the same as claiming that
all controls automatically preclude psi.

BALTER -- indicates that "major psi types like Thelma Moss" use the excuse.

I -- asked for a citation.

ROSEN -- repeats his claim that parapsychologists make such a claim "every
time serious scientific rigor shows up what they claim to be true."  In
response to my statement about Dr. Moss he said the same thing again.

END OF SUMMARY

Rich, dogmatically repeating yourself is not equivalent to presenting evidence
for your claims.  In over a decade of involvement with  parapsychology, I have
heard no such statement made by a parapsychologist (though this is not the
first time I have heard similar statements rather vaguely attributed to
parapsychologists by critics).  If you know of any who have, Dr. Moss or
others, give at least a vague citation.  Where did you hear or read this?
Statements by psychics, "demonologists" or other non-scientists do not count.
Common knowledge also does not count.

If you simply repeat the statement again, I will take it as an admission that
you actually know of no such claim ever being put forward by a parapsychologist.
In other words, that (heaven forbid) Rich Rosen was wrong.

		Topher Cooper

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Disclaimer:  This contains my own opinions, and I am solely responsible for
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