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From: mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor)
Newsgroups: net.politics.theory
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Newsflash! [JoSH on Socialis
Message-ID: <1715@dciem.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 10-Oct-85 19:09:55 EDT
Article-I.D.: dciem.1715
Posted: Thu Oct 10 19:09:55 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 10-Oct-85 20:17:26 EDT
References: <1674@dciem.UUCP> <28200103@inmet.UUCP>
Reply-To: mmt@dciem.UUCP (PUT YOUR NAME HERE)
Organization: D.C.I.E.M., Toronto, Canada
Lines: 41
Summary: 


>>That is false.  Wealth is created by the re-organization of things
>>(the reduction of entropy, if you like).  Government most definitely
>>can aid in such organization.  Whether it is the most efficient way
>>of doing so is a different story, but to regard government as only
>>a transfer medium for existing wealth is like seeing a painting as
>>a transfer medium for oil and pigment.
>>
>
>Whoa!  Let's have some historical examples please, of a government that
>CREATED wealth. Granted that governments seldom actually started out
>to destroy wealth, I've never heard of one that actually engaged in
>NET creation of wealth (such a government would not need to tax people,
>as it would turn a profit).  Localized increase of wealth is no trick at
>all for a government, but to call this "creation of wealth"
>amounts to assuming that the money in the tax-collector's coffers
>just "appears from nowhere".

Whoa, indeed!  You totally misunderstand the idea.  I never said that
Governments CREATE wealth, just that the orgaization they provide assists
in the creation of wealth.  Your question would be better phrased (and
just as unanswerable) if you said: Show examples of two societies
equivalent in natural resources, one of which was an anarchy and the
other having a government, in which the one with the government was
wealthier.  In the absence of comparable societies, and in the absence
of any anarchies lasting more than a few weeks, no such tests can be
made.  It seems obvious to me that the institutionalized means of
communication and organization provided by (yes!) the bureaucracy
assist greatly in developing both social and material orgainization.
In fact, a few months ago, libertarians were arguing strenuously that
such was the case (remember "no monoplies without governments to help?).

So, I argue not that Governments create wealth, but that their presence
assists in the creation of wealth, which is measured not in money
but in organization (i.e. reduction of entropy).  To measure wealth
in money is to measure it not at all.
-- 

Martin Taylor
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