Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site rti-sel.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!mcnc!rti-sel!wfi From: wfi@rti-sel.UUCP (William Ingogly) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: Re: Nominally Single??? Message-ID: <490@rti-sel.UUCP> Date: Mon, 21-Oct-85 12:58:58 EDT Article-I.D.: rti-sel.490 Posted: Mon Oct 21 12:58:58 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 23-Oct-85 05:13:26 EDT References: <1071@trwrdc.UUCP> Reply-To: wfi@rti-sel.UUCP (William Ingogly) Organization: Research Triangle Institute, NC Lines: 110 Keywords: snugglebunny, huggybear, kissypoo :-) Summary: In article <1071@trwrdc.UUCP> frith@trwatf.UUCP (Lord Frith) writes: >>>> Obsessive longing for a shattered relationship ... >>> >>> Now WAIT a minute! Loss of one's love is NOT the same as fearing the single >>> state! ... >> >> I believe the need people are talking about originates in fear: the >> fear that one can't make it on one's own, the fear that one will never >> have another relationship like the one that's missing, etc. > >That's not what I read above. The feeling of loss that you describe as >unhealthy is due to the loss of a particular relationship and not the >absence of a relationship in general. In other words, the need and >feelings of loss are for that single individual and NOT based upon the >fear that you will unable to find a suitable surogate. Can you honestly say that you've never felt at the end of a relationship a twinge of irrational fear that you may never fall in love again, or that the intensity of your experience together will not be repeated? I think many people have these thoughts. My contention is that HEALTHY people consider these things, react rationally to them, and get beyond them. Unfortunately, there are people who cannot get beyond these thoughts and lead miserable lives as a result. You may not have known people like this; I have. >Each person and >relationship is unique. Once finished.... that relationship is ended >forever. When something this precious is lost it should come as no >surprise that there is an extended period of morning or even scars that >cannot be forgotten. When the mourning period starts interfering with the rest of your life, you've got a problem. Period. Scars that cannot be forgotten are going to affect the way you relate to other people, the way you view life, and the way you perform your everyday tasks. This is a problem. Saying a scar can't be forgotten is surrendering your life to despair and/or pain. That's abdicating responsibility for your actions. >> I wasn't denying that the feeling that life has lost its savor is >> normal; what's NOT normal is that feeling continuing beyond a finite >> period of mourning. And I think the belief that such continued >> obsession is normal is dangerous. > >That depends on what is truly normal, or to be more precise... what is >truly healthy. If the feeling of loss can linger for a week... a >month... a year.... then it can linger for even longer periods of >time. To say it isn't "normal" isn't saying much. What is normal? >Who is to dictate what is normal and how long feelings of any kind >should last? What is normal is what is. No. Charles Manson's behavior is not normal, Son of Sam's behavior is not normal, Richard Speck's behavior is not normal, John Wayne Gacy's behavior is not normal ... I suggest you go and spend a few weeks as an observer at a mental institution and then come back and tell us about normality. Abnormal behavior is destructive to the individual and/or to the community. When your 'mourning' goes on to the point where your enjoyment of life, interaction with other people, or job performance is affected you'd damned well better get some help because your life is out of control. I don't think the definition of the bounds of 'normal' or 'healthy' behavior is as difficult a task as you seem to think. >> If obsession isn't self-destructive behavior, what is? > >Obsession is not always self-destructive. The popular public opinion of >the obsessed person is someone who is driven.... derranged.... ready to >sacrifice ALL for his neurotic psychosis. You know... like Bruce Dern. The kind of obsession I was referring to IS self destructive. I repeat: when you can't function because of your obsession, you have a problem. >> them. I repeat my challenge: can you come up with some POSITIVE >> interpretations of the belief that one MUST HAVE a relationship? > >By this I might conclude that you think Sex is necessarily a negative >thing because so many people NEED it. Or that love is an unhealthy >thing because so many people say they NEED their loves. The sex drive can be controlled. A properly socialized person does not spot a sexually attractive person on the street, rip off his/her clothing and have at it. We make decisions whether or not to have sex, and some people choose to remain celibate for long periods of time. Dependency on sex or love is a form of addiction, I believe. If you can't go two days without a phone call from your sweetie or if you can't make a conscious decision to abstain from ALL sex (including masturbation) for X days you're an addict. I've never said either sex or love were negative things; I enjoy them both. It's our ATTITUDES and BELIEFS about sex and love that can get us into trouble. Let me tell you a story: last Christmas holiday, someone I'm close to and I were both home for about a week. He had a picture of his fiancee and he would spend a good part of the time we were together mooning and crooning over it. Every evening at about 7:00 PM he HAD to call his little sweetie; if he didn't he became frantic. He also told me during the course of the week that (1) she was so beautiful that he felt 'intimidated' by her beauty and (2) that she had told him to thank his mother for giving birth to a wonderful son like him. Now, this behavior kept him from enjoying his vacation and ruined the times we were together. Everyone (including his mother) had it up to HERE [hand extended flat just below my chin] with him. Oh, by the way, he's since married her. It's his third marriage. BEHAVIOR THAT RUINS A LONG-PLANNED HOLIDAY AND THAT MAKES FAMILY AND FRIENDS UNCOMFORTABLE IS NEGATIVE BEHAVIOR. -- Cheers, Bill Ingogly