Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site princeton.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!princeton!jsl From: jsl@princeton.UUCP (Jong Lee) Newsgroups: net.sport.baseball Subject: Re: canesco(?), and the A's Message-ID: <1115@princeton.UUCP> Date: Mon, 14-Oct-85 20:40:06 EDT Article-I.D.: princeto.1115 Posted: Mon Oct 14 20:40:06 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 15-Oct-85 20:36:31 EDT References: <1103@princeton.UUCP> <451@bdmrrr.UUCP> Distribution: net Organization: Princeton University EECS Dept Lines: 87 > > (Will there ever be group like > > the '81 staff of Norris, Langford, Kingman, Keogh, McCatty !?!?!?!?! > Hold on here! If Billy Martin had not come to Oakland, I honestly believe > they would not have experienced the two years of success that they had > in 1980 and 1981. He took a team that lost 108 games in 1979, and got > them to finish above .500. Had Billy Martin not managed the A's, Tony > Armas may have never gotten a chance to play and achieve the stardom that > he has. One of Billy's first decisions was that Armas was going to be > his starting right fielder. > What you say about the two years of over .500 ball is true. However, I would have preferred four years of mediocre ball and still have the starting staff around to complement the rather surprisingly good hitting (even without Ricky Henderson)....think of it! they coulda bin a contenda'! You are saying that the pitchers may have been just flukes? Well, I'd rather take the chance than burning them out for certain; I mean who ever heard of 90+ complete games for a pitching staff after WWII? And previous to that, the pitchers didn't throw the stuff that strains the arm (as much)....and spitters were ok then, too. As for Armas, I think he is overrated....he was mediocre at best in the Oakland Alameda County stadium; but as soon as he goes to Fenway, and sees the matchbox size stadium....I am not saying anything against the Bosox (esp. Rice), but most of Armas' HR's are high fly balls that clear the "green monster" (very unlike the shots that Rice hits). But I am digressing.... > Billy Martin did not burn out Mike Norris. Mike Norris burned out Mike Norris. > It was great the Billy could motivate him for one career year. Norris probably > would have never lived up to his potential in any season had Billy not been > in Oakland. > > Had Billy Martin used the bullpen in 1980 and 1981 (and thus sparing his > starters some innings) the A's would not have won as many games. They would > still be searching for their first AL West title since 1975. Billy took a team > that was going to be sub .500 for ten years and offered two years of decent > baseball. When was the last time you saw a team finish above .500 with > Wayne Gross at third (lots of errors .230 batting average), Mario Guerrero > at short, and Dave McKay at second? > > Give Billy Martin a lot of credit. If you want two good years out of a bad > club, he can get it for you. By the way, look at the great job he did with > the Yankees this year. I'm glad you brought this up. Let's look at our neighborhood team, the Orioles, who finished around five (six?) games over .500 this year. I just did a comparison of the two teams, and the O's come out ahead in the hitting in the infield (Murray and Ripkin and Wiggins = 2 1/4 +'s - since Wiggins only played about a quarter of the season, and he wasn't all that good anyway), and the A's come out ahead in the outfield (Henderson and Armas = 1 + 1/2 +'s). I am calling Fragile Freddy and Murphy even, although Murphy played in substantially more games with better stats -- Lynn's sub weren't so hot.... You would agree that the A's staff blows doors on the O's, yes? The former had a combined ERA in the low/mid 3's, whereas the latter had a laughable 4.something or other. I would give the nod to the A's in view of the fact that good pitching always beats good hitting, as proved as recently as the All-star game this year. It is ironic that Gross would play for both teams....So I don't think Billy did such a hot job then (the A's would have done well with any competent - competent, not great - manager ; and you can't tell me that I am comparing him to Weaver, one of the best in the game. The truth is, he screwed up this year as well.... with the very solid nucleus of Ripkin and Murray and a pitching staff that was impressive the previous year, he was only 5/6 games over. So, Weaver should have done better also. All things considered, Martin did an adequate job.); nor did Billy do a good job this year. He should have won it, with the likes of Winfield, Henderson, Mattingly, Randolph, Guidry, etc. > But why am I arguing with an A's fan? It's just that I get burned up whenever I think of what could have been. And I just want to flame Billy Martin. I was hoping the Orioles would clobber the Yankees this year but .... > Side note: I am an avid Oakland A's fan as well. We truly are a dying breed. > > -- > /\ /\ > / \/^\ /\ /\/\/\ /^\ /\ /^/\^\ /\ > Al Gates\^/ \/\ / \/ \/\/ \/\ / ^ \/ \^^^\ > BDM Corporation \/\ /^\ / {seismo,rlgvax}!bdmrrr!gates \ /\ \ > 7915 Jones Branch Drive\/ \ \ / \ / \ \ > McLean, Virginia 22102 \ \ \/ \/ \ \ > \ \ \^^\ Hey, I am originally from Northern Virginia also. Do you follow the O's? Sunny Lee