Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site princeton.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!princeton!jsl From: jsl@princeton.UUCP (Jong Lee) Newsgroups: net.sport.baseball Subject: Re: canesco(?), and the A's Message-ID: <1116@princeton.UUCP> Date: Mon, 14-Oct-85 21:06:26 EDT Article-I.D.: princeto.1116 Posted: Mon Oct 14 21:06:26 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 15-Oct-85 20:36:55 EDT References: <1103@princeton.UUCP> <451@bdmrrr.UUCP> <1115@princeton.UUCP> Distribution: net Organization: Princeton University EECS Dept Lines: 90 > > > (Will there ever be group like > > > the '81 staff of Norris, Langford, Kingman, Keogh, McCatty !?!?!?!?! > > Hold on here! If Billy Martin had not come to Oakland, I honestly believe > > they would not have experienced the two years of success that they had > > in 1980 and 1981. He took a team that lost 108 games in 1979, and got > > them to finish above .500. Had Billy Martin not managed the A's, Tony > > Armas may have never gotten a chance to play and achieve the stardom that > > he has. One of Billy's first decisions was that Armas was going to be > > his starting right fielder. > > > What you say about the two years of over .500 ball is true. However, I > would have preferred four years of mediocre ball and still have the > starting staff around to complement the rather surprisingly good hitting > (even without Ricky Henderson)....think of it! they coulda bin a > contenda'! You are saying that the pitchers may have been just flukes? > Well, I'd rather take the chance than burning them out for certain; I > mean who ever heard of 90+ complete games for a pitching staff after > WWII? And previous to that, the pitchers didn't throw the stuff that > strains the arm (as much)....and spitters were ok then, too. As for > Armas, I think he is overrated....he was mediocre at best in the > Oakland Alameda County stadium; but as soon as he goes to Fenway, and > sees the matchbox size stadium....I am not saying anything against the > Bosox (esp. Rice), but most of Armas' HR's are pop-ups/fly balls that > clear the "green monster" (very unlike the shots that Rice hits), but would be caught in most other ball parks. > But I am digressing.... > > Billy Martin did not burn out Mike Norris. Mike Norris burned out Mike Norris. > > It was great the Billy could motivate him for one career year. Norris probably > > would have never lived up to his potential in any season had Billy not been > > in Oakland. > > > > Had Billy Martin used the bullpen in 1980 and 1981 (and thus sparing his > > starters some innings) the A's would not have won as many games. They would > > still be searching for their first AL West title since 1975. Billy took a team > > that was going to be sub .500 for ten years and offered two years of decent > > baseball. When was the last time you saw a team finish above .500 with > > Wayne Gross at third (lots of errors .230 batting average), Mario Guerrero > > at short, and Dave McKay at second? > > > > Give Billy Martin a lot of credit. If you want two good years out of a bad > > club, he can get it for you. By the way, look at the great job he did with > > the Yankees this year. > > I'm glad you brought this up. Let's look at our neighborhood team, the > Orioles, who finished around five (six?) games over .500 this year. > I just did a comparison of the two teams, and the O's come out ahead > in the hitting in the infield (Murray and Ripkin and Wiggins = 2 1/4 +'s > - since Wiggins only played about a quarter of the season, and he wasn't > all that good anyway), and the A's come out ahead in the outfield > (Henderson and Armas = 1 + 1/2 +'s). I am calling Fragile Freddy > and Murphy even, although Murphy played in substantially more games > with better stats -- Lynn's sub weren't so hot.... You would agree > that the A's staff blows doors on the O's, yes? The former had a > combined ERA in the low/mid 3's, whereas the latter had a laughable > 4.something or other. I would give the nod to the A's in view of the > fact that good pitching always beats good hitting, as proved as recently > as the All-star game this year. It is ironic that Gross would play for > both teams....So I don't think Billy did such a hot job then (the A's > would have done well with any competent - competent, not great - manager > ; and you can't tell me that I am comparing him to Weaver, one of the > best in the game. The truth is, he screwed up this year as well.... > with the very solid nucleus of Ripkin and Murray and a pitching staff > that was impressive the previous year, he was only 5/6 games over. So, > Weaver should have done better also. All things considered, Martin > did an adequate job.); nor did Billy do a good job > this year. He should have won it, with the likes > of Winfield, Henderson, Mattingly, Randolph, Guidry, etc. > > > > But why am I arguing with an A's fan? It's just that I get burned up > whenever I think of what could have been. And I just want to flame > Billy Martin. > I was hoping the Orioles would clobber the Yankees this year but .... > > > Side note: I am an avid Oakland A's fan as well. We truly are a dying breed. > > > > -- > > /\ /\ > > / \/^\ /\ /\/\/\ /^\ /\ /^/\^\ /\ > > Al Gates\^/ \/\ / \/ \/\/ \/\ / ^ \/ \^^^\ > > BDM Corporation \/\ /^\ / {seismo,rlgvax}!bdmrrr!gates \ /\ \ > > 7915 Jones Branch Drive\/ \ \ / \ / \ \ > > McLean, Virginia 22102 \ \ \/ \/ \ \ > > \ \ \^^\ > Hey, I am originally from Northern Virginia also. Do you follow the O's? > > Sunny Lee > *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***