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From: jrrt@mtuxo.UUCP (r.mitchell)
Newsgroups: net.startrek
Subject: (Long) comments on naval procedures
Message-ID: <1023@mtuxo.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 9-Oct-85 14:23:39 EDT
Article-I.D.: mtuxo.1023
Posted: Wed Oct  9 14:23:39 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 12-Oct-85 06:46:05 EDT
Organization: AT&T Information Systems Labs, Holmdel NJ
Lines: 71

From: boyajian@akov68.DEC (JERRY BOYAJIAN)
	There is a difference between the RANK of Captain and the POSITION 
	of Captain.  Kirk's rank is Admiral, his position is Captain.
Well said, Jerry.  By naval tradition, the commanding officer of
any commissioned vessel is said to be the Captain of that vessel,
regardless of his/her actual rank.  

	Now, in the first movie, Decker had a temporary grade (rank) 
	reduction to Commander because there can't be two "Captains" in the
	crew. Why? So that if any of the crew address the Captain, there 
	won't be any confusion about whom is being addressed.
I won't dispute your claim, but that's not how things are done in
the current Navy.  First, since an officer's rank is established by
act of Congress, only Congress has the authority to take away, or reduce,
an officer's rank.  There may be a similiar organization in the
Federation that oversees Star Fleet in the same manner.  Second,
under *no* circumstances is an officer referred to by less than
his/her actual rank -- to do so would be a most heinous violation of
military courtesy.  How to address an officer depends on the
relative status of the addressee and addressor (e.g., which of them
are members of the crew), the absolute status of the addressee (only
junior officers are addressed as "Mr."), and the position held by
the addressee if a member of the crew.  

The bottom line for that episode is Decker could be called any of a
number of things if he was a Captain serving as a Communications
Officer, but "Commander" would not be one of them by current Naval
tradition.  But then, the current Navy has only a tenuous correlation
with Star Fleet.

From: drew@ukma.UUCP (Andrew Lawson)
	Commodore is not a "rank" in the way that that term is normally 
	used.  It is a command position that has no real significance in 
	peace time service (thus the difficulty in finding general 
	understanding).  Generally speaking, a commodore is the "captain" 
	of a fleet, as opposed to a vessel.
Not quite, Drew.  Several years ago, the Navy re-introduced the rank
of Commodore.  It's at the O-7 level, equivalent to a one-star
general.  To be picky, a commodore has traditionally commanded a
"squadron," which is a collection of ships of similar type,
homeported in the same city.  For instance, SUBRON Eight, Submarine
Squadron Eight, consists of of a half-dozen-or-so attack submarines.
A "fleet" is a collection of vessels from possibly different squadrons,
assigned together under an operational commander (generally an admiral)
for a specific task or to operate in a specific area.

From: ccrse@ucdavis.UUCP (Steve Ehrhardt)
	In the case of both admirals and commodores, they are seldom in 
	command of the vessel that they themselves are aboard.  Their area 
	of responsibility is the overall tactical command of the mission, 
	leaving the operation of the various ships, including the flagship 
	(the ship carrying the admiral/commodore), to their respective 
	captains.  It is considered very bad form for the flag officer to 
	interfere directly in the operations of his flagship, but on the
	other hand, the captain of said vessel can hardly afford to ignore 
	the "suggestions" of the flag officer.  These sorts of situations 
	are famous for creating all sorts of tension and bad blood between 
	the captain and flag officer.
I agree with every word, Steve, although the "bad blood" is found
more often in novels and movies than in the real Navy.

	An interesting thought occurs to me after writing the above:  why 
	not make Spock the captain of the Enterprise (or whatever other 
	name a new ship might have) and saddle him with Kirk as a flag 
	officer aboard?  The fireworks might be spectacular when Kirk 
	found he couldn't always have his own way!
Assuming that Spock is both willing and able to return to duty, I
think yours is a great idea!

Rob Mitchell, LT, USNR
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