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From: wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin )
Newsgroups: net.suicide
Subject: Re: misc. ramblings
Message-ID: <2255@brl-tgr.ARPA>
Date: Fri, 18-Oct-85 17:43:35 EDT
Article-I.D.: brl-tgr.2255
Posted: Fri Oct 18 17:43:35 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 21-Oct-85 06:32:27 EDT
References: <199@ikonas.UUCP> <1746@brl-tgr.ARPA> <1180@ames.UUCP>
Reply-To: wmartin@brl-bmd.UUCP
Organization: USAMC ALMSA, St. Louis, MO
Lines: 36

In article <1180@ames.UUCP> eugene@ames.UUCP (Eugene Miya) writes:
>> It is hard to get someone to give up their life in order to do
>> something that can't be done any other way; it takes a lot of
>> conditioning so that a soldier will perform a necessary act though there
>> is a high probablility that he will be killed doing it, or for a
>> religious person to become a martyr to their cause.
>> Will
>
>I disagree with this and I know miltary people who would agree with me.
>
Well, I'm not sure why you disagree, but this is not just my personal
viewpoint. For a recent reference supporting this view, watch the PBS TV
series "WAR", a commentary by Gwynne Dyer (I think I have that name
right). The second episode, on basic training (using the Marines as an
example) explicitly stated this sentiment. In fact, it was claimed that
instilling such conditioning was the main purpose of Basic, and that it
is so done in other armed forces also. I have read the equivalent for
years in various books, also.

As for the example of religious martyrs, is there any question that
religious training, or upbringing in a culture with a religious
orientation, is NOT a long process of conditioning?

Or is your disagreement with the word "hard" in the above paragraph?
Are you saying that it is no big deal? That it is relatively easy to do?
(So that you actually agree with the conditioning aspect, but hold that
it can be done easily? This would counter my point about the value of a
suicidal person, then, I accept -- if you can easily churn out suicide
squads via simple and quick methods, they are of little individual
value. I don't think that this is the case, though -- I think the
process is always going to be long and expensive.)

I still hold by my view, then; need more arguments to convince me
otherwise.

Will