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From: hunter@oakhill.UUCP (Hunter Scales)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: Rape (The nature of reality)
Message-ID: <550@oakhill.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 4-Oct-85 20:09:50 EDT
Article-I.D.: oakhill.550
Posted: Fri Oct  4 20:09:50 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 7-Oct-85 04:34:35 EDT
References: <25100002@smu> <25100003@smu> <2569@sun.uucp>
Reply-To: hunter@oakhill.UUCP (Hunter Scales)
Organization: Motorola Inc. Austin, Tx
Lines: 54

In article <1714@watdcsu.UUCP> dmcanzi@watdcsu.UUCP (David Canzi) writes:
>In article <549@mtfmp.UUCP> lje@mtfmp.UUCP (L.ELSER) writes:
>>Women have every right to go to the library, the
>>dining hall, other dorms, stores, bars, etc.
>>without being accosted.
>
>A moral judgement.  You may feel that you have the right to do this or
>that without getting accosted, but that doesn't mean you won't get
>accosted.  A major point of my first posting was that moral judgements
>have nothing to do with reality.  The word "ought" would not exist in
>the English language if what happens and what ought to happen were
>always the same thing.
:
:
>If you were unable to defend yourself, these might be the only methods
>available to reduce your risk.  It's unfair.  But "unfair" is a moral
>judgement, and (as above) moral judgements have nothing to do with
>reality.
>
>moral judgements have... etc.  Note that disapproving of an idea, and
>then rejecting it on moral grounds, completely bypasses consideration
>of the idea's truth value.
>
>The whole point, the "nature of reality", is that reality will be and
>will do what it bloody well pleases, whether you approve of it or not.

	This, I believe, is her underlying objection to your posting.
(If it wans't, it is my objection.) "Reality", in this case is social
reality.  Social reality is what we choose to make it, not some
objective, unchangeable reality.  If we continue to tolerate rape as a
given in our society, it will continue to perpetuate itself.  Only by
demanding that rape, and murder and all violent acts, be treated as the
crimes they are, can we hope for a better world.  Standing idly by an
spouting platitudes about how the word "ought" should not be in the
dictionary contributes nothing to improving our lives.

>
>All followups to my first posting on this topic, except for one, have
>been based on misinterpretations of what I was saying.  I would
>appreciate it if any future followups were based on what I actually
>said.
>-- 
>David Canzi

	You will note that I have edited the exchange of postings
simply to cut down on the net traffic.  I did not read your original
posting and I am but, since I am replying to the one referenced,
I don't see that it matters.

-- 
Motorola Semiconductor Inc.                Hunter Scales
Austin, Texas           {ihnp4,seismo,ctvax,gatech}!ut-sally!oakhill!hunter

(I am responsible for myself and my dog and no-one else)