Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site decwrl.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-vaxuum!dyer From: dyer@vaxuum.DEC (People 'R' People) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: \"Traditional Values\" Message-ID: <828@decwrl.UUCP> Date: Mon, 14-Oct-85 12:46:46 EDT Article-I.D.: decwrl.828 Posted: Mon Oct 14 12:46:46 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 15-Oct-85 07:02:53 EDT Sender: daemon@decwrl.UUCP Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 94 Re: "Traditional Values"__________________________________________ It seems to me that what this discussion needs is a good dose of fact. I just hope this article isn't misconstrued as part of an excess emphasis on the empirical (-:). References are listed after my signature. > Many marriage counselors today feel that marriages are not > working because of the 'ME' attitude instead of the 'WE' > attitude. The 'ME' attitude is a symtom [sic] of this new age > we have entered, you know, this period of personal enlightenment > of rediscovering one's self. The 'WE' attitude is more the > tradionalist['] thinking from another age commonly refered to > as the past. If these marriage counselors would pay less attention to the World According to the Mass Media and more attention to the effect of a sexist society on the institution of marriage, their success rate would climb. Therapists, marriage counselors included, hold negative sex-role stereotypes about women in similar proportions to the general public [1]. The Feminist Therapy Movement has yielded a new perspective that takes issues such as sexism and power into account. Counselors and therapists operating from this perspec- tive have been more successful than those operating from the old perspectives (which did not take these issues into account) [2]. > I've heard these counselors also mention that committment, which > is a key word in a marriage, is very difficult to achieve by > people who are more into their own desires and self-serving > interests than people who are not. This is true, but to draw the conclusions from this that you do, one has to assume that in "The Good Old Days," marriages were held together by commitment. Others have refuted this point already, so I won't go into that. In general, the traditional marriage benefits the husband much more than the wife, and the results can be seen when one sees mental health statistics in relation to sex and marriage: married men (in general) enjoy the best mental health and married women (in general) enjoy the worst mental health [3]. I wouldn't say that such a marriage "works." Instead, a marriage whose commitment is drived from *love* would work. Love and inequality, by the way, do not mix. >> In days gone by, no matter how viciously a husband beat his >> wife, and no matter how often he molested his children, the >> marriage would stay together. Wives and children had no legal >> rights, and there were no support groups; women would be told >> to endure it, and the children would not be believed. >> >> Since the crimes weren't reported, as far as the record can >> tell, all of these wife-beating child molesters of bygone days >> had *perfect* marriages! >> > People were not perfect then just as they are not perfect now. > You have not proof of the degree to which child molesting and > wife terrorizing took place in the past. There most certainly is proof! There are so many books about violence against women that I couldn't possibly list them all here. Any decent library or book store should have an ample supply of them. In a pinch, you could always find examples in the Bible. The Bible also has examples of fathers sexually abusing their children. There is evidence that it has continued from that time to the present [4]. (Note that one of these references was written in "The Good Old Days.") <_Jym_> :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::' :: `:::: Jym Dyer ::::' :: `:::: ::' :: `:: Dracut, Massachusetts ::' :: `:: :: :: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: :: :: .::::. :: DYER%VAXUUM.DEC@DECWRL.ARPA :: .::::. :: ::..:' :: `:..:: {allegra|decvax|ihnp4|ucbvax} ::..:' :: `:..:: ::::. :: .:::: decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-vaxuum!dyer ::::' :: `:::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: [1] Broverman, I.K., _et_al_. "Sex-Role Stereotypes: A Current Appraisal." _Journal_of_Social_Issues_, 1972. Fabrikant, B., _et_al_. "Perceived Female Sex-Role Attributes and Psychotherapists' Sex-Role Expectations for Female Patients." _New_Jersey_Psypchologist_, 1973. Nowacki, C.M., & Poe, C.A. "The Concept of Mental Health as Related to Sex of Person Perceived." _Journal_of_Consulting_ _and_Clinical_Psychology_, 1973. [2] Friedman, S.S., _et_al_. _A_Woman's_Guide_to_Therapy_. 1979, Prentice-Hall. [3] Bernard, J.S. _The_Future_of_Marriage_. 1972, World. [4] Butler, S. _Conspiracy_of_Silence:_The_Trauma_of_Incest_. 1938, Glide Press. Rush, F. _The_Best_Kept_Secret:_Sexual_Abuse_of_Children_. 1980, Prentice-Hall.