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From: pwk@ccice2.UUCP (Paul W. Karber)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: what makes you feel feminine/masculine?
Message-ID: <662@ccice2.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 15-Oct-85 20:38:30 EDT
Article-I.D.: ccice2.662
Posted: Tue Oct 15 20:38:30 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 19-Oct-85 06:44:17 EDT
References: <248@ssc-vax.UUCP> <1944@reed.UUCP> <32@ubc-cs.UUCP> <848@homxb.UUCP> <37@ubc-cs.UUCP> <1246@mtgzz.UUCP>
Reply-To: pwk@ccice2.UUCP (Paul W. Karber)
Organization: CCI Central Engineering, Rochester, NY
Lines: 56

In article <1246@mtgzz.UUCP> seb@mtgzz.UUCP (s.e.badian) writes:

>	Men have been dictating what is masculine and feminine 
>throughout time. Clothes is (are) a particularly good example.

"Men have been dictating"? I think you are over estimating the power
of men.

>Look at
>the furor Elizabeth Caty Stanton and Susan B. Anthony started when
>they decided they didn't want to wear skirts that reached to the
>floor. Why is it that a well dressed female executive can't wear
>pants, but must wear a skirt?

Why is it that I can't wear a coat, tie, and shorts?  They do in
New Zealand.

>Well dressed women still don't wear
>pants in most cases. And don't tell me it's because they like to 
>wear dresses and skirts. I've been to enough meetings to know that
>slacks on a woman are just not "dressed up" enough for business.

Don't tell me I like to wear pants. Shorts are just not "dressed up"
enough for business.

>The equal of a 3 piece suit is still a skirt, blouse and jacket.
>Do you think women are actually dictating this fashion? There aren't
>enough women at the meetings to make a difference yet.

When there are enough women what will they wear?  3 piece suits?
Will I get to wear shorts?

I don't like my 3 piece suit any more then you like your skirt,
blouse, and jacket.  Do you think men are actually dictating this
fashion?  (If you really want to talk about discomfort we could talk
about my tie and your high hell shoes (not a typo). (I usually wear
a clip-on tie myself.  It looks funky but I can BREATH.))
Society dictates fashion.  Men have been stuck with suits.
What makes you think that when there are "enough women at the meetings"
they will make a difference?  Do you really think men are that
different from women?

>	Men have no interest in changing the standards of femininity
>because they have nothing to lose if the standards remain the same,
>and stand to lose security and possibly power if they do change. But
>if they wanted to, they could bring about change. 
>
>Sharon Badian
>ihnp4!mtgzz!seb

I have a lot of interest in changing the standards, and I can
think of a lot of things I stand to gain if they do change.

-- 

siesmo!rochester!ccice5!ccice2!pwk