Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/17/84; site mhuxr.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mfs From: mfs@mhuxr.UUCP (Damballah Wedo) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: what makes you feel feminine/masculine? Message-ID: <468@mhuxr.UUCP> Date: Tue, 22-Oct-85 09:10:24 EDT Article-I.D.: mhuxr.468 Posted: Tue Oct 22 09:10:24 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 23-Oct-85 05:42:50 EDT References: <248@ssc-vax.UUCP> <1944@reed.UUCP> <32@ubc-cs.UUCP> Organization: The Poto Mitan in the Houmfor Lines: 47 > Sharon Badian: > > The men are the only ones who can answer my question. You complain about the > rules of masculinity, but where do they come from? Don't generalize; *some*, *a few*, or whatever, complain. > ..... Women are free to be more like men .... So why do they complain so bitterly about it? A lot of women's writing (not necessarily feminist or political) is about how lonely, competitive, etc. it is to operate in this society. About how lousy a deal it is to reach the top and have no one to share it with, etc. Of course, that is men's fault. Never mind that we have known this all along, that we are also stuck in the same loop. It's our fault. I don't ever recall hearing a male say that if women were more like men, everything would be OK. If women made that assumption, fought to make it reality and now find that it was faulty, well, whose responsibility is that? > So we're back to the question of "why can't men act like more like women?" So that's the central question, hey? If women want to be more like men, then men must want to be more like women. Well, I don't claim to speak for anyone other than myself, but I enjoy being male, and I can't honestly see any advantage in becoming "more like women." Sure I'm imperfect. Sure I have been told, by men and women, that I can be a royal pain in the neck. I believe this imperfection is what makes me whatever is is that I am. Despite this imperfection, I have made some deep and lasting (i.e. > 25 years) friendships and am building a life with a tremendous woman. I am comfortable in my own skin, and see no real reason to want to become "more like women," and especially not because some woman says so. > I don't see all that much change going on among the men. Though > all of you may deny it loudly, I believe that men want the old > feminine ideals of beauty, and sometimes the self-reliance and brains. A woman that is beautiful, self-reliant and intelligent would come pretty close to being perfect. There were precious few of them around, last time I looked. Cynthia Heimel (a very funny woman) claims the ideal man is filthy rich, gorgeous, can fuck for 12 hours at a time, has a lifetime supply of cocaine and brings home a dozen roses every night (or something like that.) Perhaps you women should get together and decide what you want from men before posting long articles about what we are not :-) -- Marcel-Franck Simon ihnp4!{mhuxr, hl3b5b}!mfs " Sa ou pa konnin toujou pi fo pase' ou "