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From: wall@drzeus.DEC (David F. Wall MRO1-1/M31 DTN: 297-6882)
Newsgroups: net.comics
Subject: Re: Tim Maroney on X-Factor
Message-ID: <1614@decwrl.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 5-Dec-85 14:25:13 EST
Article-I.D.: decwrl.1614
Posted: Thu Dec  5 14:25:13 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 7-Dec-85 17:07:51 EST
Sender: daemon@decwrl.UUCP
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 83

Hmmmmm.  After spending some time trying to decide whether or not Tim Maroney's
2-Dec-1985 posting about X-Factor was serious, I decided it was.  Since he
didn't flame, I'm going to try not to.

Beginning at the beginning, then....

Why is everyone so down on X-Factor?  Because if you're a long time fan, even
if you haven't read the Jean Grey resurrection stories, you can't look at a
single panel of it and not know that they screwed up one of the five best
storylines in comics history to produce this thing.  Of course, given what your
opinions appear to be on Claremont's writing, you may not have this feeling. 
That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but for me and I suspect for
other people this does a lot to make them not like the book as much as they
might have. They ruined a classic story in the name of hyping this book. 

As for a reasonable characterization of Cyclops, that depends on what you think
is reasonable.  I don't think ramming characters back into a mold they have not
fit for many years (real or Marvel time) is all that reasonable.  If this were
a retrospective on the original X-Men, it would be different.  One of the things
that really annoys me about all this has to do with Angel, Iceman, and the
Beast.  Now I was never really that fond of the New Defenders, but to me,
reasonable characterizations would have the three of them having been changed
by the experience of the final battle with Moondragon in #152.  People they
worked with died, and it doesn't seem to have bothered them at all, which is
not the way it ought to be.

Many long-time fans have made the assertion that THESE are the X-Men.  That's
not quite true.  These *were* the X-Men.  Then, supposedly, they grew up, and
went on to other things, as adults, to get on with their lives.  Even if you
ignore everything that's happened since X-Men #94, that would be a reasonable
assumption to make, and they're just the same.  This isn't authentic
characterization for me.  The members of X-Factor give me the general feeling
that the kids in Room 222 did -- they're frozen in time.

The only complex relationship I've perceived so far in X-Factor is the
Jean-Scott-Madelaine thing.  And Chris Claremont is responsible for that.
In fact, this angle is the only really new thing Layton's done with Cyclops.
In issue 2 he begins to feel like a slug, and he oughta, 'cause he is one.
He's not only socially inept, he's immature.  My fondest hope for X-Factor
is Maddy taking Scott to court and getting every penny X-Factor makes in
child support.  Now *that* would be authentic.  I don't think anyone at
Marvel will be brave enough to do it, though.

Are you saying we expected X-Factor to be the best team book on the market
next to BATO, or that you think it's the best team book on the market?
Either way, BATO is only going to be with us for another issue or so.
And if you want some complicated relationships, you oughta take a look at
The New Teen Titans.  Apparently, the thing between Changeling and Terra was
just the beginning.  Now Donna's married, Starfire had to get married to
someone she doesn't love, Jericho came home to find out Kole got zapped in
Crisis, it just doesn't end.

This is not to say I think X-Men or New Mutants has been all that hot lately.
You're perfectly right about its quality of late -- as far as I'm concerned the
last good X-Men story ended with the issue just before the New Mutants debuted.
That doesn't place X-Factor up on a pedastal, though.

Your P.S. was kind of tacky, Tim.  Waving the lady's academic achievements in
our face, particularly in a discussion about a comic book, is kind of silly. 
Sure, she knows things we don't -- about classics.  You didn't tell us whether
or not she's a long time comics reader, or which of Claremont's stuff you're
using in the comparison.  You're not going to start comparing Dickens and Joyce
and Shakespeare to Layton or Claremont or anyone else in the industry of
comics, are you?  None of them had the editorial millstone of Jim Shooter
around their necks, none of them had to produce a story every five weeks, and
none of them had to work within constraints set down by the last people to
write about their characters.  As for my standards of plot and
characterization, you've never even met me, so what do you know?

Still, one has to give you credit for saying what's on your mind, and I
suspect you will take an awful lot of flak for it.  To paraphrase Hank
McCoy, "The Usenet biz is like that, though."

Let Bob Layton do something like "God Loves, Man Kills," and maybe I'll
become a believer.  In the meantime, I just have to hope both of them get
better.

"There was NO CORPSE!"

David F. Wall, Digital Equipment Corportaion
HPSCAD, Marlboro, MA

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