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Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!lumiere!richl
From: richl@lumiere.UUCP (Rick Lindsley)
Newsgroups: net.news
Subject: Re: Just what DOES it cost? (long but specific)
Message-ID: <1400@lumiere.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 14-Nov-85 01:49:31 EST
Article-I.D.: lumiere.1400
Posted: Thu Nov 14 01:49:31 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 16-Nov-85 23:41:36 EST
References: <1300024@ccvaxa>
Reply-To: richl@lumiere.UUCP (Rick Lindsley)
Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR
Lines: 87
Summary: 

In article <1300024@ccvaxa> preece@ccvaxa.UUCP writes:

    >Much has been made lately of the amount of net traffic and
    >the cost to backbone sites of maintaining the flow.  Some
    >very large figures have been reported (always as "I've heard
    >that X's phone bill is ...").  Anybody willing to volunteer
    >facts about the actual costs?

Ok. I'm the postmaster at Tektronix and I have been asking that very
same question. Especially since there are people in this group who seem
to doubt that news backbones really pay all that much. Since I and
our news administrator here are constantly finding we need to justify
these costs internally, I have the information right here.

I just asked our telecommunications folks what our phone bills
have been for the last three months. Tektronix (West Coast) talks
long distance to decvax (East Coast) and two other West Coast sites
to exchange news and mail. We talk to a number of other sites around
the country to exchange mail only. We speak to a number of local (Portland)
and Tek-local sites for both news and mail (so no additional cost there,
unless you want to count in the cost of the numerous local area networks
here at Tek, which would probably exist anyway).

This is not an "I've heard". This is not an "I guess". This is the total
cost for two dialers for news, mail, and CSNET. Over the last 3 months,
we have had a "low" of $5300, and a high of $7000 (rounded off to the
nearest hundred dollars). We talk long distance only after 5pm and before
8am. During the day, we make only local calls (though *other* sites are
free to call *us* -- but of course they seldom do for the same reason).
And the cost is on the increase, despite batching, compression and just
about anything else you can try.

Now you are of course saying, aha, but that is not just news. No of course
not. Only 80% of that is news. By cost, about 13% of that is CSNET (also
a call to the East Coast) and only 7% is mail-only sites. The exact figures
vary, of course, from month to month, but news is consistently the hog on
the dialers.

    >I had always guessed that much of the backbone traffic went
    >over long haul links established and maintained for other
    >purposes and therefore had no marginal costs.

Hahahahahahahahaha. Nope. Perhaps we are backward, but I think we are
more likely "typical". We have one dedicated line to a Tek machine in
central Oregon. We have extensive networks within Tek (which through
the use of microwave dishes actually expand to reach about 30 miles, at
their longest point).  Everything external is phones. We are installing
an X.25 link -- but that is not peanuts either (and doesn't work yet
anyway).

    >Does anyone know what the balance of trasmission methods is?
    >How much longhaul traffic goes by telephone and how much by
    >dedicated line?  What does a backbone site actually pay, per
    >month, for longhaul links?

Were it not for the local nets, Tektronix would go broke just
delivering news to its internal sites.

You can see what the cost is to a site like Tek when groups like
net.flame or net.bizarre get created. Ideally, a backbone should not
have to restrict any newsgroups to the sites it passes to. But with
monthly phone bills in the $6000 area, it gets harder and harder to
justify those costs. I applaud the efforts to clean up the net.

You are thinking, "well, why don't they install some cheaper
alternatives?" Well here's why. Because any alternative will require
planning and justification. And while maybe people will overlook a
$70,000 yearly expenditure in increments of $6000, they WON'T ignore,
say, a $50,000 one time expenditure. While they are looking at this
$50,000 expenditure, they eventually ask the question, "what if we just
eliminate news entirely?" And then they realize they can achieve a
$50,000 yearly SAVINGS, as the phone bills drop to maybe $1500/month...
Most managers are interested in short-term gains or losses that affect
them for the immediate budget (sad but true).

So if any of you complainers out there want to be a backbone, that's
great!  Plunk down your $6000/month and join the ranks. Maybe Tektronix
can step down and be a parasite off of somebody. I'll certainly lose a
lot of headaches at budget time.  Alternatively, send a contribution to
the backbone of your choice. I'm sure they'll appreciate it.

Hoping this opens some eyes (but not holding my breath),

Rick Lindsley
Postmaster@tektronix
richl@tektronix.csnet
...{decvax,ihnp4,ucbvax,allegra}!tektronix!lumiere!richl