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From: woods@hao.UUCP (Greg Woods)
Newsgroups: net.news.group
Subject: Re: Proposed deletion of Rich Rosen
Message-ID: <1864@hao.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 19-Nov-85 15:15:28 EST
Article-I.D.: hao.1864
Posted: Tue Nov 19 15:15:28 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 21-Nov-85 04:08:41 EST
References: <10108@tardis.UUCP>
Distribution: net
Organization: High Altitude Obs./NCAR, Boulder CO
Lines: 84

> Rich Rosen's articles have an extremely low signal-to-noise ratio.

  They consist mainly of Rich stating his axiomatic beliefs as though
they were proven facts, and following that with a logical argument based
on those beliefs to prove that his opponent(s) are "wrong".

> Many (most?) of his postings are point-by-point replies; often,
> most of the text was previously posted.  Transmitting this text is
> an utter waste.  What little he has to say is blasted out so many
> times one gets sick of reading it.  

  Not to mention arguments carried on by mail. I got involved with a discussion
with Rich recently (it started from the "emotional responsibility" discussion
in net.singles, if anyone remembers all the flames THAT caused) that rapidly
degenerated into multi hundred line flames about how I was ignoring the "facts"
(his beliefs) and how "wrong" I was for believing the way I do.

> Due to his high volume and near-total lack of redeeming value, I propose
> that Rich Rosen be removed from USENET.  

  Do I REALLY get to vote on this? This is too good to be true! :-) 

> This is only partially in jest.  I *do* wish the man would shut up.
> However, high-volume posters, like high-volume newsgroups, are red
> herrings for the real problem, which is that too many people are
> posting too much.

  Acknowledged that we are only kidding, Rich. But you are correct; high-volume
newsgroups and posters are merely the most obvious and therefore the most
noticeable part of the problem. But eliminating Rich Rosen, even if we really
wanted to and could do so, is not even going to make a dent in the problem.

> There are two possible solutions.  Moderation is one.  However, it
> has problems.  Finding moderators that people will respect is going
> to be difficult. 

  Not really. For any newsgroup I read, I can think of a couple of people
that I would be willing to let moderate it. I could even do the job myself
(and would be willing to do so if the readers would have me).

> Dealing with poor performance on the part of a
> moderator could be next to impossible. 

  Obviously, we would have to have some guidelines for moderators to follow,
and some procedures for electing/replacing moderators.

> Lastly, the increased delay
> times of a moderated group would (or at least, could) wipe out
> discussions on the net; I don't believe this is a Good Thing.

  I do not agree that this is so.

> The other solution is to encourage restraint, and above all, to show
> it.  Quite simply, if every posting to the net (or even most of them)
> had some original content, the volume problem would go away.
> Now for the $64,000 question:  can we get there from here?

  I say no. I am firmly convinced that anything that demands cooperation
of a large group of users and/or administrators is doomed to failure.

> I don't think it's impossible.  The "obligatory joke" rule of net.jokes
> has no software enforcement, yet since this custom arose there have
> been very, very few completely inappropriate postings to jokes.

   ...except for endless reruns of Paddy O'Furniture jokes, light bulb jokes,
etc. that caused me to unsubscribe long ago.

> The
> reason:  anyone dumb enough to try it gets flamed into oblivion.

  There are many people who couldn't care less how many flames they get.

> However, keep in mind, the problem is not *them*, it is *us*.

  You are correct here. One thing I'm sure of: any rules we adopt had
better be enforceable. Otherwise there will ALWAYS be people who refuse
to follow them.

--Greg
--
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       		        !hao!woods

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