Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: $Revision: 1.6.2.16 $; site ISM780B.UUCP Path: utzoo!lsuc!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!qantel!lll-crg!seismo!harvard!bbnccv!ISM780B!jim From: jim@ISM780B.UUCP Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Re: Orphaned Response Message-ID: <39000029@ISM780B.UUCP> Date: Mon, 25-Nov-85 04:50:00 EST Article-I.D.: ISM780B.39000029 Posted: Mon Nov 25 04:50:00 1985 Date-Received: Fri, 29-Nov-85 22:12:40 EST References: <7559@ucla-cs.UUCP> Lines: 82 Nf-ID: #R:ucla-cs:-755900:ISM780B:39000029:000:4921 Nf-From: ISM780B!jim Nov 25 04:50:00 1985 >>The fact is that it is the U.S. that is totally isolated from >>world opinion concerning Nicaragua, and that rejects the Conta- >>dora process. > >You are out of date on both points. You don't say? Elaborate please. >>The main question that we should really be >>concerned with is, does the U.S. have the right to destroy the >>government and the people of the sovereign nation of Nicaragua? > >"Destroy the *people*" - does not deserve an answer. >"Destroy the government" ? - Depends on the means employed. Based upon friends who have been to Nicaragua and people who have been there who I do not know personally but have heard speak or have read testimony from, upon the statements of foreign journalists and politicians, upon the statements of Eden Pastora and other former Contra members, upon statements of members of the U.S. administration, upon published analyses by persons from the right, middle and left, upon consideration of the composition of the Contras, upon their apparent effectiveness, upon the amount of U.S aid and what is being bought with it, I think I can arrive with fairly high probability at a determination of the means being deployed, which would include thousands of civilian deaths, some torture, general harassment of the populace and attempts to undermine the effectiveness of the government and the everyday working of society through the pressures of war, with very strong popular resistance against the Contras and extremely little popular support. Since the Nicaraguan people have been armed by the government, it is difficult for me to see how the Contras could act as a "liberating" force, even if there were any evidence of any significant desire to be liberated. What, pray tell, is your carefully considered, objective analysis? >Having sold the Nicaraguan people down the river with its aid to >the Sandinistas, the US has an OBLIGATION to at least match that >with aid to the resistance. I have already mentioned intellectual honesty. It requires that analysis be objective, based on evidence, and that one's unexamined prejudices be rooted out and questioned. Your statement suggests several questions: What is your evidence that the Nicaraguan government is unusually bad as governments go? What is your evidence that it is worse than under Samoza? What is your evidence that the Nicaraguan people do not support their government? That they are unhappy about any help they might have gotten from the U.S. to depose Samoza? That they favor the Contras? That they want the U.S. to help the Contras? That the Contras are a representative resistance? What is your knowledge of the composition of the Contras? Of their basing mode? Of their structure? Their leadership? What does our aid buy? How is it channeled to the Contras? Are the interactions between the Contras and the U.S. legal in terms of U.S. and/or international law? What are your figures for the amount of aid given to the Sandinistas? To the Contras? How much more aid to the Contras would it take to "match" that given to the Sandinistas? You say "at least match"; would you prefer to exceed? If so, why (objective analysis)? By how much? What is your legal or moral justification for supporting the violent overthrow or disruption of another sovereign nation? In just what way are we obligated? Are U.S. interests better served? By what concrete measures? What are your figures for deaths to date in Nicaragua due to the resistance? What are the anticipated deaths? How long is the conflict likely to last? With what likely outcome or outcomes? What will be the long-term economic costs to Nicaragua? If the Contras win, what will be the concrete effects on the mortality rate, literacy rate, homicide rate, rape rate, level of drug and alcohol abuse, level of prostitution, domestic violence, freedom of the press and the church, land and food distribution? Do you have figures on their current status? Have you examined the Vietnam experience for possible parallels and lessons that might be applied to Nicaragua? Since you claim that you are intellectually honest and thus come to your conclusions based upon unbiased analysis and evidence and not mere ideology and unexamined prejudice, and since you are advocating continued material support of violent attacks on a sovereign nation, a course not lightly taken, I think it is reasonable to expect you to be able to answer most of these questions and be prepared to investigate all of them in an objective fashion as support for the position you have taken. Of course, I don't really believe that you have honestly considered these questions or would be willing to honestly examine them. Instead you produce catchy little slogans like the one above, littered with dishonesty, and making no reference to the degradation and death of real human beings that such policies can produce. -- Jim Balter (ima!jim)