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From: orb@whuts.UUCP (SEVENER)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Degradation and Death in Nicaragua:Re to nrh
Message-ID: <417@whuts.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 3-Dec-85 16:45:29 EST
Article-I.D.: whuts.417
Posted: Tue Dec  3 16:45:29 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 6-Dec-85 20:31:50 EST
References: <7559@ucla-cs.UUCP> <7800764@inmet.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 41

nrh asks:
> > The subject WASN'T "degradation and death", so Jan wasn't obligated to
> mention it.  Perhaps there's MORE "degradation and death" under the
> current government than there would be under the Contras.  You have
> some way of knowing that we don't (perhaps you have some way of
> quantifying "degradation")?

Yes, there *is* a way to at least approximately measure the
degradation and death caused 
a)before the Sandinistas revolution
b)after the Sandinistas revolution
c)after the Contras began their war
 
This is the evidence provided by Amnesty International and other
human rights organizations.  Before the Sandinistas overthrew
Somoza his National Guardsmen were responsible for hundreds of
deaths, torture and imprisonment for political opposition.
This was one reason even the US government under Carter pulled
away from fully backing Somoza, just as we also pulled away
from support for Guatemala for similar human rights violations.
Before and for about a year after the revolution, the Sandinistas
were responsible for some human rights abuses.  
But even at their height they never approached the level
they reached under Somoza. Furthermore according to
Amnesty International these dropped to almost nothing after
the Sandinistas were in power for a time.  The forced relocation
of the Meskito Indians was a mistake and involved coercion.
However the Sandinistas concluded an agreement with the Meskito
Indians some months ago.
Since the Contra war stepped up the contras have been responsible
for thousands of deaths.  Given that the contras leadership includes
a large percentage of Somoza's former National Guardsmen who
were largely responsible for one of the world's worst human rights
records, I would expect they would continue in that mold after
continuing a bloody rise to power.  One of the reasons I oppose
violence as a means of social change, even for good ends, is
that it tends to promote the careers and power of those who are
the most violent: the Pinochets, Stalins, and others who
grab power after violent takeovers.
 
                tim sevener   whuxn!orb