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From: tedrick@ernie.BERKELEY.EDU (Tom Tedrick)
Newsgroups: net.politics.theory
Subject: Re: Communism as historical tragedy
Message-ID: <11115@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>
Date: Fri, 29-Nov-85 03:47:57 EST
Article-I.D.: ucbvax.11115
Posted: Fri Nov 29 03:47:57 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 30-Nov-85 01:14:15 EST
References: <364@ubvax.UUCP> <28200340@inmet.UUCP>
Sender: usenet@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Reply-To: tedrick@ernie.UUCP (Tom Tedrick)
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
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In article <28200340@inmet.UUCP> janw@inmet.UUCP writes:
>
>[tedrick@ucbvax]
>	
>>It seems absurd to me to think that  the  communists  could  have
>>overturned the Tsarist regime without some external factor like a
>>major war playing a role.
>
>*Communists* couldn't, with or without war. As it was, Bolsheviks
>took *no* part in toppling the Tzar. Not one of them.

I don't understand why Jan, whom I regard as one of the most
intelligent people on the net, seems to misunderstand what I
said. I never said the communists *DID* overthrow the Tsar.
My point was that without a war the odds were heavily in favor
of the existing power group being able to retain power. The
Tsar was able to mobilize enormous armies and it took several
years of enormous slaughter (millions of Russian troops killed)
before morale collapsed. Maybe a revolution would have taken place
anyway, but my bet would be that the Tsarist regime would have been
able to stay in power if no war had taken place. So if you
are going to flame at me, flame at me for claiming that
communism would never have been victorious in Russia without
some kind of war playing a role. I hope I have made my self
clearer this time.

>Which shows that, though the war was a proximate cause, the
>collapse - of one kind or another - was inevitable.

OK, I disagree with that statement. I claim that without
the destabilizing influence of war, revolutions are much
less likely to suceed, especially if the government in
power knows what it is doing.