Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site jhunix.UUCP
Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!umcp-cs!aplcen!jhunix!ins_apmj
From: ins_apmj@jhunix.UUCP (Patrick M Juola)
Newsgroups: net.suicide,net.religion,net.abortion
Subject: Re: A modest proposal
Message-ID: <1248@jhunix.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 21-Nov-85 11:06:53 EST
Article-I.D.: jhunix.1248
Posted: Thu Nov 21 11:06:53 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 23-Nov-85 10:23:56 EST
References: <925@utcs.uucp> <1117@mtx5a.UUCP> <1863@hao.UUCP> <274@l5.uucp>
Reply-To: ins_apmj@jhunix.ARPA (Patrick M Juola)
Distribution: net
Organization: Johns Hopkins Univ. Computing Ctr.
Lines: 35
Xref: linus net.suicide:741 net.religion:7916 net.abortion:2193
Summary: He who lives by the nit, dies by the nit.

In article <274@l5.uucp> laura@l5.UUCP (Laura Creighton) writes:
>                                       If a fetus is human being, then
>abortions are murder.  If a fetus is not a human being, then they are
>not. If a fetus is a huamn being at 6 months, but not at 6 weeks, then
>an abortion is a murder at 6 months and an abortion is not murder at
>6 weeks.  This is the whole issue.
>
>If you think that a fetus is not a human being, and a fetus is, then you
>are advocating murder.  That you are doing this in innocence doesn't
>lesson that you are advocating murder (though it will certainly influence
>my opinion of you).

Laura, nicely expressed except for one point -- you are assuming that killing
of a human being is murder in some absolute sense; before the throne of God 
you will be judged on the murder of this poor little fetus regardless of
whether or not you felt it was human.

However, a) murder is a crime -- defined by humans, committed by humans,
punished by humans, all without God's assistance.  There are several instances
where a human can be killed without it being murder -- a soldier in wartime,
a policeman using "deadly force," an honest accident (manslaughter), or
even self-defence.  If (a foetus is human), then (abortions are murder) is
not valid reasoning, since (killing a human) != (murder).  Don't bother to
respond with "Yes, but the fetus isn't harming anyone, so self-defence doesn't
apply"; wars tend to produce thousands of pointless deaths where the soldiers
themselves have nothing to do with the reasons for fighting.

All right, so let's assume that we are talking about the "before the throne"
guilt.  In this context, the "human" discussion is pointless, since the
commandment reads "Thou shalt not kill," not "Thou shalt not kill humans."
Therefore, any abortion is a grevious sin.  q.e.d.  However, this also has
a few problems associated with it (I say as I eat my bacon-double cheese-
burger.)  Even the french fries were once alive....
						Pat Juola
						JHU - Maths