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From: arnold@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU (Kenneth C R C Arnold)
Newsgroups: net.politics,net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Zionism is not racism; Anti-Israel = antisemitic
Message-ID: <11015@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 18-Nov-85 19:04:53 EST
Article-I.D.: ucbvax.11015
Posted: Mon Nov 18 19:04:53 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 26-Nov-85 21:15:58 EST
References: <482@mhuxm.UUCP>
Reply-To: arnold@ucbvax.UUCP (Kenneth C R C Arnold)
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Lines: 38
Xref: lsuc net.politics:2078 net.religion.jewish:1580

In article <482@mhuxm.UUCP> abeles@mhuxm.UUCP (J. Abeles) writes:
>> The following identity is FALSE :
>> Muslim = Arab = Anti-semitic = Anti-israel
>> (Chedley Aourouri (sp?) )
>
>Well, that may be so, but the following identity is TRUE:
>
>anti-Israel = anti-Zionist = antisemitic

The preceding identity is FALSE.

I could cite some friends of mine who are practicing Jews, but object
to Israel or many of its policies, but let me instead refer to a piece
of Israeli history.  At the time of the debate after WW II about
whether Israel should be founded, many very Orthodox Jews opposed it
for religous reasons which, I believe, had to do with founding Israel
before the coming of the Messiah (excuse the use of non-Hebrew terms,
and any clarification about their exact reasons is welcome).  These
people were not anitsemetic, and since the Messiah has not come, I
presume that there are devout Jews who still hold this view.

If you brush this aside as being a minor nitpick, I will be forced to
cite my observant friends who disapprove of Israel.  Primarily, they
consider Israel to have been founded substantially on terrorism by many
Jewish settlers (of which Begin is the most famous in the U.S.), and to
be acting improperly in their policies towards the occupied West Bank.
If they were computer people, I'd sit them at the terminal, but I know
Mr. Abeles's identity to be false, and degrading to the richness of
Jewish diversity and thought.

One might also point out that it is possible to be against the
current state of Israel without being against Zionism in principle.
I don't know anyone who holds this view, but there are various 
views of what a true Zionist Israeli state would be like, and there
is no guarantee that some Zionist somehwere isn't anti-Israel as it is
currently constituted (maybe Kahane is one such).  This, however, *is*
a minor nitpick, as far as I know.
		Ken Arnold