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From: teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz)
Newsgroups: net.politics,net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Re: Zionism is not racism; Anti-Israel = antisemitic
Message-ID: <2084@aecom.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 25-Nov-85 15:23:55 EST
Article-I.D.: aecom.2084
Posted: Mon Nov 25 15:23:55 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 29-Nov-85 21:02:40 EST
References: <482@mhuxm.UUCP> <11015@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> <489@mhuxm.UUCP>
Organization: Albert Einstein Coll. of Med., NY
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Xref: lsuc net.politics:2172 net.religion.jewish:1617

> > >> The following identity is FALSE :
> > >> Muslim = Arab = Anti-semitic = Anti-israel

> > >Well, that may be so, but the following identity is TRUE:
> > >anti-Israel = anti-Zionist = antisemitic  (J. Abeles)

> > The preceding identity is FALSE.
> >                 ...  At the time of the debate after WW II about
> > whether Israel should be founded, many very Orthodox Jews opposed it
> > for religous reasons which, I believe, had to do with founding Israel
> > before the coming of the Messiah ...
> > 
> > One might also point out that it is possible to be against the
> > current state of Israel without being against Zionism in principle.
> > 		(Ken Arnold)
> 
> My response:
> 
> 1)  There ARE orthopractic Jews today who are anti-Zionist.
>     It is my deeply-held belief that they are indeed anti-semitic.
> 

	I'm glad you feel this way. However, your opinion does not an
 identity make. There are amny Jews ( both Orthodox and not ) who do
 not believe in Zionism. This does not in any way mean that they hate
 Jews.

> 2)  There is a difference between legitimate disagreement with
>     the policies of the State of Israel, and anti-Zionism.
>     Simply because of the well-known threat to the existence
>     of the State of Israel, it is necessary to categorically
>     state frequently that one is not anti-Zionist when criticizing
>     the policies.
> 

	What does this have to do with equating anti-zionism and
 anti-semitism.

> 3)  Remember that if you are anti-Zionist, you are advocating
>     the destruction of the State of Israel, NOT its modification
>     to your preferred form.  That is because it is the destruction
>     of Israel which is being debated, and which is constantly
>     called for by most Arab States.  When I, for example, say
>     I don't like the French (because they aid shamelessly
>     in the proliferation of nuclear technology to irresponsible
>     third-world governments) nobody assumes that I am calling
>     for the destruction of France!  NOT SO where Israel is concerned.
> 

	And if I advocate the destruction of the state of Israel am I 
 advocating the destruction of Jews. I don't think so. I'm sure there 
 is a safe way of removing all the Jews from Israel and then returning the
 land to others. I don't believe in doing this, since I believe we have
 a right to the land. However, if someone was to advocate such a scheme
 I could hardly call him anti-semitic although I could call him anti-
 zionist.


	Eliyahu Teitz.