Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site umcp-cs.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxn!ihnp4!qantel!lll-crg!gymble!umcp-cs!israel From: israel@umcp-cs.UUCP (Bruce Israel) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: Re: sensitivity Message-ID: <2333@umcp-cs.UUCP> Date: Tue, 26-Nov-85 01:10:40 EST Article-I.D.: umcp-cs.2333 Posted: Tue Nov 26 01:10:40 1985 Date-Received: Fri, 29-Nov-85 00:23:08 EST References: <1933@zehntel.UUCP> <3850033@csd2.UUCP> <218@unirot.UUCP> <2322@umcp-cs.UUCP> <219@unirot.UUCP> Reply-To: israel@maryland.UUCP (Bruce israel) Organization: U of Maryland, Computer Science Dept., College Park, MD Lines: 111 In article <219@unirot.UUCP> pooh@unirot.UUCP (Pooh) writes: > where does one get off trying >to "get them to do something about their life"? It seems that >we have a very low tolerance for problems and failure in general, >and when you yourself have conquered most of your nasty beasts, >this tolerance can virtually approach nil. (I'm trying VERY hard >not to use the word "society" in this posting. . .:-) If someone >is letting, say, an irrational fear get in the way of asking for >a deserved promotion, who are you to say he should get over it? >Why not let him have his fear, and let him ask you for help in >defeating it when he's ready? This goes back to what I said in my posting about whether he is receptive to my communication and assistance? If he isn't receptive, then obviously I shouldn't assist him since it won't do anything anyway except maybe get in the way of our relationship. If he is receptive, though, shouldn't I help him out? Wouldn't I be a better friend if I helped pull him out of his "shit", than if I just let him sleep in it until he asked me for help? Here's a hypothetical situation for you, Pooh. It was just my birthday (last week, Nov 20th). I got a green vertically-striped shirt that I just adore. On Nov 23rd I go to a your housewarming party in NJ (sorry I couldn't actually make it) and decide to wear my new shirt along with my favorite pair of red-plaid pants. (I don't have the best sense of color-coordination, you see. :-) ) I make quite an entrance to this party, and all eyes are on me. I revel in this attention, but what I don't notice is that everyone is snickering behind my back. You, being my friend, know that I don't mind being laughed at if I'm clowning or joking around, but absolutely hate for people to look down on me or to laugh at me otherwise. (It's really true!! :-( ). Now, I haven't asked you for any help or advice (Of course not; I don't realize that anything is wrong). Now remember, you are my friend. . . . Quick!!!! What do you do? . . . You can either spare my feelings by keeping quiet, in which case I'll probably wear my favorite new outfit all over the place. Or you can tell me that it doesn't go together, at which time I'll get really depressed that I made such a fool of myself in front of all these people. Now, I don't claim to have an answer to this. I don't think its that cut and dried a situation. Personally, I like my friends to be honest enough with me to help me even if it hurts, so I'd prefer that you cause me pain now and spare me much greater pain and embarrassment later. But that is me. And my preferences. And if I'm not open to your help (For example, if I find the embarrassment such a fearsome alternative that I tell you that you're crazy and that the outfit looks great; you're just jealous 'cause I'm attracting all these stares from all these attractive women) then telling me would serve no purpose and you shouldn't tell me. >We all have problems, folks. This is not a bad thing. >What IS wrong (in my view) is that we often make a problem >out of having problems. If you're depressed, you spend as much >time and energy feeling guilty about it, trying to hide it from >friends so as not to make them uncomfortable, fighting it--in >short, being depressed about being depressed. If we could take >the social stigma away from these problems, I believe they would >be no more debilitating than a case of the flu. True. In the growth training circles I run around in, this is referred to as "experiencing thru" an emotion rather than trying to stuff it or work around it. >If someone wanted me to be honest with him and was asking me >for help with a problem, I would still try to put it as gently >as possible. Otherwise, I simply would opt for being as considerate >of his feelings as I could while being as honest as I could. (I >put them in that order for a reason.) This, to me, is called >manners. Why should we throw manners to the winds just because >we're intimate friends with someone? We shouldn't; but I also feel that we shouldn't make "being considerate for another's feelings" be such a No. 1 priority that we avoid solutions that would work better for the person we are helping just because they conflict with 'manners'. For example, if yelling at a friend "Goddammit, you fucking idiot, look at the mess you are making of this situation!!!" gets him actually looking at what is going on with an eye toward doing something about it more than "Excuse me, but do you realize that you just ..." then I feel that the first behaviour is warranted in that situation. Again, as I said in my first posting, it depends on what your goals are. And I do feel that being considerate for others' feelings can and should be one of your goals in any communication. I just don't think that its the only, or even the overriding goal, the way that you do. >I find it very hard to believe that Bird Dog's posting was made >out of an altruistic wish to help each and every one of us find >happiness and fulfillment in a real relationship. Well, I don't really feel that he was being altruistic either, but he was a good example for what I was saying. >Just make sure you examine your goals. Oh, absolutely! After all, whenever we do any communication at all, we have goals in mind (though sometimes we don't recognize consciously what they are). If you know what your goals in any communication are, then your communication will be much clearer and purposeful. -- Bruce Israel University of Maryland, Computer Science Dept. {rlgvax,seismo}!umcp-cs!israel (Usenet) israel@Maryland (Arpanet)