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From: wfi@rti-sel.UUCP (William Ingogly)
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: Re: emotions and your so
Message-ID: <563@rti-sel.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 2-Dec-85 10:37:19 EST
Article-I.D.: rti-sel.563
Posted: Mon Dec  2 10:37:19 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 3-Dec-85 01:13:46 EST
References: <382@ssc-vax.UUCP> <1059@lll-crg.ARpA> <556@rti-sel.UUCP> <297@l5.uucp>
Reply-To: wfi@rti-sel.UUCP (William Ingogly)
Distribution: na
Organization: Research Triangle Institute, NC
Lines: 63
Summary: 

In article <297@l5.uucp> laura@l5.UUCP (Laura Creighton) writes:

>...Well, for women there is this
>drunken louse who comes home drunk and enraged and beat up on his wife and
>his kids. (Totally logical, this wretch!)
>And for men, there is the emotional blackmailer.   The stereotypical
>irrational whiney bitch who  cannot be reasoned with. ...
>Now these stereotypes are not really sex-specific ... but
>there seems to be some sort of sex corelation.
>...  At school it sickened me more
>than anything else.  And I looked around at my parents friends, at people
>in the neighbourhood, and my friend's parents and at the parents of people
>I went to school with and found it again, and again, and again.  ...

There are plenty of drunken louses, emotional blackmailers, and moral
cripples out there. But in my experience there are also a lot of people 
out there trying to live life the best way they can by being GOOD to
each other. People like those you describe have problems; you and I
can't solve their problems for them. The best one can do is suggest
a person like this find professional help and try to avoid getting 
sucked into a destructive relationship with him/her. Unfortunately,
women more than men are conditioned to be nurturers, and many of them
go through a lot of pain trying to heal twisted men on their own. 

There ARE good, decent people out there; I prefer spending time with
them and leaving the care of the emotionally crippled to professionals. 
 
>There is a way out of it.  Women have to get rid of the idea that it is
>somehow attractive to be ``weak'' and realise that they are strong and be
>proud of it. 

Again, I find that most of the women I know ARE taking charge of their
personal lives as well as their careers. But I've always liked dealing
with strong women and have felt uncomfortable with women who feign
weakness to make themselves attractive to men or (worse) to get what
they want out of a relationship. Why the h_ll should I HAVE to be the
strong one all the time?? I find weakness and incompetence sexually
unattractive.

>They are going to have to give up the feminine ideal (have
>you ever noticed that the social ideal in feminine behaviour is remarkably
>like the social ideal in child behaviour -- and not like the social ideal
>for male or human behaviour?)  and start dealing with men as equals.  This
>deos not mean going out and joing up with the feminist bandwagon.  

Heh, heh ... have you ever noticed how convenient the 'feminine
ideal' is for men? If a woman is a lesser being you don't have to
treat her as an equal or pay her as much as a man ... 

>Right now things are very confused.  There is too much reinforcement for
>the idea that it is rewarding for women to live as parasites and as
>emotional manipulators.  There is too much reinforcement of the idea that
>if you are a man and you are being manipulted emotionally by someone
>who refuses to be reasonable then the only response is to hit them.

I believe things HAVE gotten better in this regard over the last
fifteen years or so. I still meet (shudder) parasitic and manipulative
women, but most of the women I know are strong career oriented women
who don't take crap from anybody. And I know few mature men who take a
traditional macho stance in their relationships with women. So I'm not
sure things are as bleak as you say.

                       -- Cheers, Bill Ingogly