Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 (Tek) 9/28/84 based on 9/17/84; site tekigm2.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!tekigm2!wrd From: wrd@tekigm2.UUCP (Bill Dippert) Newsgroups: net.games.board Subject: Re: Re: Seattle Rules Rail Baron Message-ID: <304@tekigm2.UUCP> Date: Mon, 9-Dec-85 11:44:19 EST Article-I.D.: tekigm2.304 Posted: Mon Dec 9 11:44:19 1985 Date-Received: Thu, 12-Dec-85 05:00:11 EST References: <270@tekigm2.UUCP> <37800017@hpcnoe.UUCP> Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR Lines: 111 > Re: "Seattle" rules Rail Baron. > > I think the Seattle Rules would ruin Rail Baron. Looking at the new > destination chart, the region probabilities break down as: > > -- Jeff Wu > ihnp4!hpfcla!j_wu TO KEEP THIS SHORT, I HAVE DELETED ALL OF JEFF'S REMARKS, SEE HIS POSTING IF YOU WANT TO READ HIS TEXT, THANK YOU. Re: Re: "Seattle" Rules Rail Baron Taking your arguments in order (more or less): I am not sure how you calculated your destination odds, but they are not correct. Remember, it in essence is: "what is the odds of rolling an odd (or even) red die along with rolling (various) combinations of white dice, realizing that there may be more than one way to reach a particular region and that for each way to reach that region, there may be more than one combination of dice that will get the correct number." As it turns out (deliberately, I might add) there are 3 possible ways to pick each region out (out of 21) in the even column and 3 possible ways to pick each region out (out of 21) in the odd column. (I.e. there is one way to get a 2, one way to get a 3, two ways to get a 4, etc.) Figure it out for each number and then notice where the regions are, add up the possible combinations and you will see that there are 21 possible combin- ations to get odd regions (or even regions). Similarly later on when you quote odds for reaching specific cities, remember that to reach that city, you must first go thru the odd calculations above, then starting with the region odds calculate the odds of reaching the city by the same method. Thus the odds for reaching Seattle are not anywhere near 12.5%. (The odds of getting NW is only 14.3% in the first place.) By the way, unlike the Regions, the Cities are not balanced as to odds of picking, so on a city by city level, you get varying odds. I do not know what you mean when you say that the original Rail Baron corresponded to the "real world" popularities. Were you referring to passenger trains or freight trains. The Seattle Rules attempted to balance out the destinations by the popularity of cities for freight trains. I am not sure what the original rules intended, but as been previously pointed out by another poster, how realistic is it to pay as much run trains down a track if you pay as much to run the trains as it cost you to buy the railroad? It's only a game for crying out loud! Other rule changes: 1: yes, use two white dice instead of one red die. Speeds up the game as you get to destinations quicker. (Regardless of length of trip.) 2: what good does it do you to get a bonus roll when you are there? This rule merely spells out what was implied in the original rules. 3: yes, this also speeds up the game. And yes, it gets rid of the annoying part of the game of having to continuously pay for trip. 4: again, this speeds up the game. Anything that allows you either to not pay out as much or allows you to get more money speeds up the game. 5: again, why would it do you any good to be established when you are at your destination. This is an attempt to clarify a situation caused by the origninal rules, that really is impossible. Once you reach your destination, by definition you are no longer on a railroad, there- fore, how can you be "established"? Thus, two of the rule changes were to clarify the original rules and three were to speed up the game. Which brings us to the use of the ruler. It also was to speed up the game, the orginal chart was hopeless. If you have the use of a computer, fine. The ruler in most cases gives you either the identical $ or close enough that in the long run it does not matter. While most of us have computers now, they usually are not in the same room where we have social activities (such as Rail Baron) thus their use is negated. However, if you have a terminal nearby, use it! Again, the ruler is simply to speed up the game. Which brings me to my final point, for *** sakes, if you like a game that can be longer than even Monopoly then do not use the rule changes designed to speed it up! But from over 10 years experience, we have found that it makes a much better game if speeded up (it still can take up to 7 hours, for heaven sakes!). The other factor of the game time is obviously how many players that you allow. We sometimes have up to 8 players (red, yellow, black, white, blue, green, orange, yellow/black) -- the orange and yellow/black were added deliberately to allow more players at times. Normally we play 4 - 6 players and anything that can be done to speed up the game is welcome. With only 2 - 3 players the game will go fairly fast no matter how you play it. (To get extra tokens, we ordered an extra set from A-H and painted up markers, etc. and photocopied the white cards and colored them in for Express and Superchief.) Would be interested in hearing from other players who have been trying our modified "Seattle" Rules to see how they feel about them. As I said in the original postings, they have been played for over 10 years and we think we have more or less perfected them. I wonder how long A-H tried the original rules? --Bill-- tektronix!tekigm2!wrd Bill Dippert c/o Tektronix, Inc. M/S C1/775 P.O. Box 3500 Vancouver, WA 98668-3500 or Bill Dippert 2650 N. W. Robinia Lane Portland, OR 97229-4037 white, blue, green,