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From: garys@bunker.UUCP (Gary M. Samuelson)
Newsgroups: net.kids
Subject: Re: "Mine, mine, all mine" -- help
Message-ID: <1067@bunker.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 23-Dec-85 11:24:39 EST
Article-I.D.: bunker.1067
Posted: Mon Dec 23 11:24:39 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 25-Dec-85 02:37:11 EST
References: <283@h.cs.cmu.edu>
Reply-To: garys@bunker.UUCP (Gary M. Samuelson)
Organization: Bunker Ramo, Trumbull Ct
Lines: 74
Summary: 

My comments on getting young children to share.

>>> I only have two, fairly close in age and the best thing I've come up with
>>> is when I hear them fighting over anything, I calmly walk over, take the
>>> object in question, walk to the garbage can (in sight of both of them) and
>>> deposit the offending item.  This may or may not be accompanied by something
>>> like. "Keep fighting and ALL your toys will be in the garbage."
>>> I've only done it three times, the third being the clincher.
>>> It was the oldest ones favorite Barbie doll!
>>> 					Addison

I do something similar, but I don't throw the toy away; I just put it
up.

>>YIKES!  I can't see what your kids about supposed to learn except that 
>>you won't take the time to teach them how to work out their differences.
>>Would you please expound on this?
>>
>>Mike Clifford

I would wager that they *have* learned how to work out their differences,
since Addison has only had to use the ploy three times.  When kids who
have been arguing start looking for an adult, I think that they are
usually looking for an advocate, not a mediator.

I would also wager that Addison has tried lots of different techniques,
and found that as long as fighting doesn't cost them anything (be it
material or otherwise) and sometimes works, kids will keep fighting.

>YIKES! is right.  Besides the fact that this is just plain cruel, punishment
>is one of the least effective means of behavior modification.  It would be
>much more effective to try explanation when the incident occurs...

If they were being rational enough to listen to an explanation, they
wouldn't be fighting in the first place.  First you have to stop the
fight, and that requires exerting authority, which seems to be anathema
to so-called modern theories of child raising.

>...and, much
>more importantly, to heap praise on the child the next time they show the
>slightest bit of generosity or sharing.  Then continue to praise good
>actions.

Some people seem to think that there is a dichotomy: either one praises
good behavior or one punishes bad behavior.  I think that both are
essential.  But punishment is a dirty word to some people.  Punishment
versus rational explanation is another false dichotomy; a parent should
be able to explain why the child is being punished.

> When explaining things to your child, try to emphasize the good
>aspects of their actions without dwelling on the bad aspects.
>
>Please, Addison, for the sake of your children, do some reading in the areas
>of developmental and behavioral psychology.  I'm sure that your intentions
>are good, but your method is incorrect according to the evidence of an
>overwhelming amount of research.  Positive reinforcement is *always* better
>than punishment and it will produce other good qualities in your kids.

It is true that punishment will not generate good behavior; but the purpose
of punishment is not to generate good behavior, it's to extinguish bad
behavior.  Meanwhile, one must reinforce good behavior to take the place
of the bad behavior.

>I
>doubt seriously that you would want your children to start punishing each
>other, yet you are teaching them that punishment is a reasonable response to
>undesireable actions.

In this world, certain types of behavior lead to undesirable consequences.
Also, everyone has to do things from time to time that they would rather not.
The sooner kids learn these things, the happier they'll be.

Gary Samuelson
bunker!garys