Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.PCS 1/10/84; site mtgzz.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!mtuxo!mtgzz!dmt From: dmt@mtgzz.UUCP (d.m.tutelman) Newsgroups: net.micro.pc,net.micro Subject: Re: *B* clones and work-a-likes (long) Message-ID: <1511@mtgzz.UUCP> Date: Mon, 23-Dec-85 17:46:03 EST Article-I.D.: mtgzz.1511 Posted: Mon Dec 23 17:46:03 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 25-Dec-85 01:18:03 EST References: <937@voder.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Information Systems Labs, Middletown NJ Lines: 64 Keywords: lowcost, compatibility, lowcost, availibility, lowcost, experience Xref: watmath net.micro.pc:6335 net.micro:13259 Cc: dmt, e.e.jones > I am interested in anyone's experiences with *B* clones and > compatibiles. Why did you buy the one you have? What was its price? What > do you like or dislike about the machine? Did you buy a completely > assembled brand name unit or did you buy a collection of parts and > assemble it youself? And, most important, have you ran into any > programs that will not run (even with patches, etc). If so, on what > machine was it on? > > If you have undertaken the task of assembling a clone from individual > parts, please let me know how you feel about the quality of the components, > the price, the location where they were bought (is the facility willing to > stand behind its product, is there any support, etc?), and how well the > clone performs. I've built two clones over the last three years. One experience was a healthy education, ending with a machine I still use (I'm sending this from it). The other was a disaster, and I welcome this opportunity to vent a little spleen. 1. Good experience - MicroMint MPX-16 not-quite-compatible. Yup, the company that turns Steve Ciarcia's BYTE articles into kits; remember the IBM bus-compatible (that really ran CP/M-86). Well, they never claimed it would be completely compatible, and it ain't. Since one of my objectives for the project was to learn about PC software compatibility, this was a major success -- my machine contains every subtle way for a program to be incompatible. However, I generally know what won't work and why, and can sometimes patch around the problem. And enough stuff works "right out of the box" that it's a damn useful machine. But I wouldn't recommend it today. Anyone buying a clone can get more compatibility for less money. (Remember that this was almost the first clone; COMPAQ may have beaten them. It was certainly the first clone KIT.) 2. Bad experience - MBE-XT board from Computer Parts Galore. A year or so ago, A friend and I built a couple of XT-clone motherboards from bare boards. One was a SUPER-XT and the other an MBE-XT. The SUPER came up fairly easily, but the MBE doesn't work to this day. After debugging it with pretty sophisticated tools (Biomation with 8088 disassembler), I still saw flaky memory performance anytime I put over 128K into it. Sent it back to Computer Parts Galore for repairs; they changed a lot of chips (including all the memory chips), but it doesn't work any better (that is to say, not well enough to boot). I've heard from a tech who sounds knowledgeable that the MBE is a known problem. The circuit design is much the same as the SUPER-XT, but the board layout was screwed up. I BELIEVE IT! What do I use and really like? On my desk at work I have an AT&T PC6300. It's the fastest clone I've used (8MHz 8086 with full 16-bit memory access), and I haven't used any software that wouldn't run on it. Best of all, it has good (as in monochrome) alphanumerics and IBM-compatible graphics -- best of both worlds. (Hercules graphics aren't compatible with most existing software, and CGA alpha gives me a headache.) If I didn't have so much hardware around the house already, I'd buy one for home. (Yes, I do work for AT&T, so I'm probably biased, but I'm being as candid as I can.) Dave Tutelman Physical - AT&T Information Systems Room 3P432 200 Laurel Avenue Middletown, NJ 07748 Logical - ...ihnp4!mtuxo!mtgzz!dmt Audible - (201) 957 5535 ---------------------------------------------------------------