Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site caip.RUTGERS.EDU Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!whuxl!whuxlm!akgua!gatech!ut-sally!topaz!caip!roberts From: roberts@nbs-vms.ARPA Newsgroups: net.micro.amiga Subject: Re: recent Amiga vs ST debate Message-ID: <800@caip.RUTGERS.EDU> Date: Fri, 20-Dec-85 08:16:18 EST Article-I.D.: caip.800 Posted: Fri Dec 20 08:16:18 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 22-Dec-85 00:09:39 EST Sender: daemon@caip.RUTGERS.EDU Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 105 From: "ROBERTS, JOHN" Several Points of Comparison in the Amiga vs ST Debate 1) The official Atari price of the ST system that has received so much praise in this mailing list is actually $1798 (799 for the monochrome version, plus 999 for the color version). Each version will do things that the other will not, and it is usually the composite of these functions that is represented as the overall capability of the ST. Atari has not to my knowledge offered to sell the monitors other than as part of a package deal. (I personally tend to favor the monochrome version - it seems to be best for the things the ST does the best.) 2) I expect a computer to be good for handling text, but for a *personal* computer, I also enjoy sound and graphics capabilities. If Atari users were all the sensible sort who want only the minimal graphics required for text, one would expect only monochrome STs to be sold. I don't have any national figures, but a local dealer (admittedly a small sample) claims they are going about 50-50. Perhaps even some sensible Atari users enjoy graphics. With the ST, there is a choice between optimized color graphics and optimized text that must be made at purchase time. The standard Amiga monitor is reported to do a good job for both graphics and text, and other monitors (including cheap monochrome monitors) can be used if desired. The Amiga also has a lot of special hardware designed to enhance sound and graphics capabilities with minimal impact on processor performance. 3) It is to be expected that one would find a point in time in which there is more software commercially available for the ST than for the Amiga, since the ST is several months ahead in its development and marketing. There was a large volume of software available for the TRS-80 Model I long before the ST (or even the Atari 400) had even been conceived. I notice that the Atari designers didn't give up in despair, though. A variety of Amiga programs are just starting to become widely available. 4) Commodore/Amiga has been fairly open and honest about the internal structure and functioning of their machine, while by comparison Atari has been relatively secretive (specific examples furnished upon request). As a hardware designer, I like to know that there is something other than a little green man in the box. As a customer, I like to know what the machine is potentially capable of, which to me involves knowledge of what's inside. 5) I have not heard much about ST expandability in terms of processors, more memory, etc. The Amiga was designed with such expandability in mind,and has bus ports, etc. for that purpose. Several companies are working on expansions now. 6) Most of the Dhrystone benchmarks run on the Amiga (showing slightly slower execution than the ST) have been run with the processor using the same memory as the specialized chips. With an expanded memory space (which could be desired for its own sake) performance should be enhanced, especially for graphics-intensive applications. A faster processor (the 68020) should give a greater increase in performance. What should really give floating point performance a boost is the addition of a good floating point processor chip (of which the 68881 is a logical choice for the 68000 family). I expect a 68881 to be available for the Amiga long before the ST gets one (if ever). 7) A minimal Amiga system I would buy (512K, RGB monitor) costs considerably more than a minimal Atari 520ST system I would buy. I think the Amiga would better suit my intended applications. 8) Jack Tramiel of Atari has announced an intention (as of a few months ago) to eventually sell hard disk and CD drives for ~$500. Even if this figure cannot be met, Atari may still come out with peripherals at much lower prices than those Tecmar is expected to charge for peripherals for the Amiga. Following this observed disparity, prices may be driven to more reasonable levels, to the benefit of the consumer. In general, competition between the two machines may help to keep prices in check. 9) The fact that the markets for the two machines do not completely overlap may help both companies to survive. My perception of local market conditions is that STs, Amigas, and C-128s (surprisingly) are being sold as fast as the dealers can get them, at least for the time being. Perhaps market share will be determined by which company can produce computers most quickly. 10) Since the Amiga should be considered in the context of other existing machines, point-by-point technical comparisons with the ST and other machines seem to be appropriate and in keeping with the spirit of the INFO-AMIGA/net.micro.amiga mailing list. Deliberate smear campaigns, on the other hand, are in very poor taste, at best. (All standard disclaimers apply, including thesearemyopinionsnotmy- employers, allthetrademarksmentionedaretrademarksandshouldbetakena- ssuch, idonthaveanythingtodowithanyofthesecompaniesexceptasacustomer, someoftheabovestatementsarespeculativeinnatureandshouldnotbeconsid- ededauthoritative, and notresponsiblefordamagescausedbytypographic- alerrorsorerrorsinfact.) Any further technical or marketing information on either machine welcomed. John Roberts Arpanet: roberts@nbs-vms Usenet: (I don't think you can send me anything except through Rutgers.) ------