Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site 3comvax.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!gamma!epsilon!zeta!sabre!petrus!bellcore!decvax!decwrl!glacier!oliveb!3comvax!mykes From: mykes@3comvax.UUCP (Mike Schwartz) Newsgroups: net.micro.amiga Subject: Re: save your money Message-ID: <300@3comvax.UUCP> Date: Mon, 23-Dec-85 20:31:02 EST Article-I.D.: 3comvax.300 Posted: Mon Dec 23 20:31:02 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 25-Dec-85 03:32:58 EST References: <297@3comvax.UUCP> <5814@fortune.UUCP> Distribution: net Organization: 3Com Corp; Mountain View, CA Lines: 105 > Now hold on here!!! > > I am no great fan of Tecmar's - I used to compete with them in > the S-100 board business before they started selling PC boards > instead (and making quite a bit of money I might add), and maybe > their prices for Amiga peripherals are too high, but some of this is > getting out of hand.... > > Mats Wichmann > Fortune Systems > {ihnp4,hplabs,dual}!fortune!mats Commodore's new Amiga computer may be the most technologically advanced personal computer for under $5000, but it may have some problems succeeding in the marketplace. The Amiga is being marketed as two different machines, a $1295 machine that plugs in to a TV and plays the best games ever, and a REAL EXPENSIVE business machine. The problem is that the Amiga is not equipped to really compete against the Atari ST (vs. the $1295 Amiga) or the IBM PC and clones. The Atari ST is actually an EXCELLENT purchase as a home computer, and actually runs circles around the Amiga performance-wise. At 3/4 the price, twice the memory, extremely good graphics, and decent sounds, I cannot blame the casual home computer user for buying the ST. As a matter of fact, if you want to even work on small programs at home, the ST would have to be the machine of choice. The extra $400+ that the cheapest Amiga costs is probably not worth the money, when it almost buys a whole 10 (or is it now 20) MB hard disk from ATARI. The bigger Amiga package (Monitor, 512K, extra floppy drive) cost me $2150 plus tax retail. This machine performs quite slow, unless I use RAM disk, and then 512K on the Amiga is not much memory for programs, let alone ramdisk. For $200 more, I could have bought an AT&T 6300 with 640K and a 10MB hard disk. The AT&T runs 2-3 times faster than an IBM XT, and runs the same compiler I use on the Amiga, plus the VAST MAJORITY of IBM PC programs. I took some heat (FLAME) about some earlier statements I made about Tecmar, and how ridiculous their pricing was (see net.micro.amiga). If you go whole hog and get 1MB of extra RAM and the 20MB hard disk, you gotta spend $2500 on top of the price of the Amiga. Now the Amiga runs like an IBM AT bu costs many $$$ more. FOR THE COST OF 1MB of RAM and a 20MB hard disk from Tecmar, I CAN BUY A SECOND AT&T 6300 with 640K and 10MB hard disk. Comparison Chart: IBM AT, 512K, 20MB hard disk $3500? (mail order) AT&T 6300, 640K, 10MB hard disk $2400 Amiga, 1.5MB, 20MB hard disk, 1 floppy, monitor $4495 Amiga, 512K, 2 floppies, Monitor $2150 Amiga, 128K, 1 floppy $1295 Atari 520 ST, 512K, monitor $899 THE BOTTOM LINE is that if I'm gonna spend $4495, I have to justify such a large expense. If I am a business, the IBM AT is much more attractive a machine to buy or 2 AT&T 6300s is even better. At $2400, the Amiga does not even compare with the AT&T 6300, except it makes better Mandlebrots. I run 'C' compiles and program editors most of the time, and the 6300 is 4 to 5 (if not even more) times faster. The Amiga at $1295 has got to be a less attractive machine than the ST. HOWEVER, to some of us, cost doesn't matter. I happen to write home computer software (8 published titles to my credit over the last 3 years), so my Amiga is a nice tax deduction. Others of you might truly be turned on by the state of the art in technology, and the Amiga is that, so that justifies the purchase of one. Currently, the Amiga runs one excellent application, intuition, plus a plethora (sarcasm) of software also available on other less expensive computers. The Amiga has real promise, and Amiga's support of the third party developer will help us developers create some new and exciting software. However, this new software has to be so good that it will sell AMIGAS. Amiga probably has to support third party developers, because we represent 90% of the people that will own their machine at the current prices. FLAME ON I would like to see Tecmar cut their prices in HALF, which all of a sudden makes the Amiga a more reasonable computer. At their current prices, it makes the Atari ST a much better machine to buy (for the home user). As a matter of fact, I could not recommend to a friend that he buy a $1295 Amiga if he didn't plan to expand it. I REPEAT: Cardco is supposed to sell a 1MB ram expansion board for the Amiga SOON for $295, so if you want to save some $$$, wait. Priam sells 70MB hard disks to my company for $600-$900, depending on the quantities ordered. I only heard about a 140MB drive from Priam being available for under $1000, and this seems to be too good to be true, but my source is pretty good. Even if a 70MB drive were made available for the AMIGA, it CAN BE DONE for the $1500 that Tecmar wants for 20MB. The market for RAM and Hard Disks will be pretty strong if the Amiga sells the 70,000 units expected by Christmas. At $200 profit per hard disk or RAM expander, someone is going to make 1 megabuck. When the Amiga gets up to 500,000 sales, watch them megabucks fly! FLAME OFF In conclusion: 1. The Amiga is GOD's gift to hackers everywhere. 2. The price of the Amiga and peripherals is too prohibitive for everyone else. 3. Save your money, buy Cardco instead of Tecmar. 4. Watch where you throw your flames or you might get burned. Mike Schwartz @ 3Com Corp. Mountain View, CA! It's 60 degrees and sunny here, do your buns need flaming?