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From: richw@ada-uts.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.motss
Subject: Re: Re. Turning the other Cheek
Message-ID: <10900009@ada-uts.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 13-Dec-85 13:21:00 EST
Article-I.D.: ada-uts.10900009
Posted: Fri Dec 13 13:21:00 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 16-Dec-85 05:38:30 EST
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Nf-From: ada-uts!richw    Dec 13 13:21:00 1985


> But it wasn't homophobia that killed that man in Toronto.  It was
> five drunk teenagers who did it.  Five PEOPLE.  Five PEOPLE who should
> be held accountable for their actions.
>
> John Reuling

People who believe that society and upbringing affect the actions of
an individual get a lot of CRAP from people who classify them as
"bleeding hearts".  The ranting and raving surrounding this murder is
an example.  Having been accused of being such a "bleeding heart",
I'd like to say that I much prefer trying (rationally) to figure out
how "justice" is to be served over madly letting (irrational) revenge
guide our actions.  Three simple words are relevent: compensation,
deterrence, and retribution.  Unfortunately, lots of people think that
criminal justice should exclusively involve retribution.

Compensation:
-------------
Funny how no one has suggested ways in which to ease the
suffering of the victim's family -- everyone is too busy trying to
come up with the most sadistic thing to do to the murderers.

Deterrence:
-----------
Society should make every effort to prevent such a disaster from
occurring again.  YES, this includes locking up the murderers -- prison
is a WONDERFUL deterrent (while prisoners are in it).  Capital punishment
is obviously a better deterrent.  But what rights do WE have to take away
someone's freedom (or life!) ?  That's an honest question -- I don't know.
I happen to think we have the right to remove criminals from our lives.
Period.  Prisons serve that purpose.  And, to at least do something to
try to compensate victims (or their families), I think criminals should be
forced to work and earn money in prison and give the earnings to the
victim (or his/her family).  You can't pay for killing someone.  But it's
better than sitting idly in jail learning how to not get caught the
next time.

Retribution (or punishing because it is "good" to punish the "bad"):
-----------
Making the life of a criminal miserable can act as a deterrent.
If it does, then punish.  Otherwise, people whose knee-jerk reaction
to crime is "Cut his balls off" does NOT indicate deterrent intentions.
Sadistic intentions, maybe.  I'm SICK of hearing people righteously
advocate torture.

You may have noticed that I never said the murderers should not be sent
to prison, or that they should not be executed, or that they should not
be punished.  I DID say that we should have REASONS for doing each of
those things.  Saying criminals "should be held accountable for their
actions" is NOT a reason.

To summarize: there are moral and ethical questions surrounding how
society should deal with criminals AND victims.  I have certain BELIEFS
about how society should act.  I DON'T like people trying to force their
narrow-minded retributionism down my throat!

-- Rich Wagner

P.S.  What the hell does "Keep chargin'" mean?  Charge where?
      Maybe "Onward, through the fog"?