Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site hpda.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!tektronix!hplabs!hpda!on From: on@hpda.UUCP (Owen Rowley) Newsgroups: net.motss Subject: Re: Book recommendation Message-ID: <1259@hpda.UUCP> Date: Thu, 26-Dec-85 15:12:59 EST Article-I.D.: hpda.1259 Posted: Thu Dec 26 15:12:59 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 28-Dec-85 13:20:17 EST References: <116@ubc-cs.UUCP> <286@Navajo.ARPA> <125@ubc-cs.UUCP> <1254@hpda.UUCP> <284@ptsfb.UUCP> Reply-To: on@hpda.UUCP (Owen Rowley) Distribution: net Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Cupertino, CA Lines: 88 >>(Owen Rowley) I will refer you to two >>excelent books that you will find enlightening and empowering.. >> >> "Witchcraft and the Gay counterculture" by A Evans $5.50 from Fag Rag Books Box 3331 Kenmore Station, Boston, Mass. 02215 Lets not forget "Another Mother Tongue" by Judy Grahn >(Rob Bernardo) >I recommend that you read this book with a GRAM of salt. Evans has an >ax to grind and he rewrites of lot of history to fit his thesis. Although >I read the book several years ago, one example still comes to mind: He >writes that Christianity was first taken up by the ruling class of Romans >and foisted upon the Roman peasantry. He uses a lot of footnotes, but hardly >ever to document his claims. Evans is very clear in his introduction that he has taken some libertys "This book is an attempt to record some of the things that *Professional* Historians usuually leave out. It is subjective It is arbitrary in that it picks and chooses among all the source material, accepting things here and there, but rejecting most as biased or unreliable." "This book, however is as true as any other historical work. It is true because ALL historical works are one sided, subjective, and arbitrary. Every historian works this way. The real Falsehood occurs when historians hide their values, emotions, and choices under a veneer of `objectivity'. A work of history cannot be assessed apart from the values of the person who wrote it." There are six pages of Bibliography, (apx 200+ entries), contrary to Robs citation I found his footnotes distracting in that the dcumentation was often overwhelming. And I had already read a lot of the books he was referencing. Evans point is that Gay history, like all history has been chopped up by people with "an Ax to grind" By the way whats so unbelievable about the Roman Ruling class foisting Xtianity on the peasantry? Evans spends pages on this particular subject give three direct quotes and over twenty bibliographical sources for his thesis. Perhpas you unaware of some of the basics of this point.. things like the words Pagan and Heathen mean people who live in the country (paganus) and people who live on the heath . That Xtianity did indeed take hold in the citys and among the ruling class first and that the peasantry have held on to their "Old Religions" beliefs so strongly that many of them still survive today . That The Xtian fextival calendar and roster of Saints is filled with "Pagan" deitys and their festivals, That The church in Rome is the remnant of the "Holy Roman Empire" etc etc etc.. Rob I know from some of your previous postings that you are a practising christian, and most of you should know by now that I am a practising Pagan. Therefore we know that there is a fundamental difference in the way we see the world life and everything. My recommendation of the previously mentioned book was intended to present to motss an opinion (my opinion) about these books. I find your need to warn others of apparent flaws in these books to be typical of the attitude that pervades most christian thinking... Self righteous and hypocritical. (Like the bible is really accurate history and doesn't have an Ax to grind... right) I think that you are showing that you have no respect for the inteligence of net.motss readers , do you really think that if you dont warn them of Evans' "heresy that they will be drawn into a life threatening slide to intelectual perdition? Listen up folks... I have said it before ... I'll say it again... We are currently experiencing the dawn of a "NEW INQUISITION" Read any version of history you want about the last few (inquisitions) but be aware (beware) Faggots , Women and other heretics (non-conforming citizens) are always the first to fuel the fires. Attempting to appear as conforming citizens has never done anything to encourage the inquisitors to abate, on the contrary they merely step up the level of torture. During the witch Hunts, A book by the tittle "mallefius Malleficorum" was the handbook for discovering and dealing with "Witchcraft and other heresies" (Sodomy amongst them) This book was officially sanctioned by the church If you really want to know the truth about what happened.. Then read the actual historical document... don't beleive me .. or any one else read it yourself. (It IS curently in print by Dover books, and its available in many major llibraries) and prepare to be sickened by it. If there is interest I would be happy to post some selections! LUX .. on Owen Rowley hplabs!hpda!on