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From: edwards@uwmacc.UUCP (mark edwards)
Newsgroups: net.nlang
Subject: Re: Learn Japanese or bust. (What are we really saying ?)
Message-ID: <1814@uwmacc.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 17-Dec-85 15:49:47 EST
Article-I.D.: uwmacc.1814
Posted: Tue Dec 17 15:49:47 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 20-Dec-85 01:12:35 EST
References: <1791@uwmacc.UUCP> <839@h-sc1.UUCP> <1809@uwmacc.UUCP> <842@h-sc1.UUCP>
Reply-To: edwards@uwmacc.UUCP (mark edwards)
Organization: UWisconsin-Madison Academic Comp Center
Lines: 60

>|I never had any problem with the phonetic structure. The speed is no
>|greater than any other language, it just sounds faster because you
>|don't understand it. 
>
>I guess that's more a matter of opinion. When learning English
>or French, I had the impression that they were pronounced 'slowly' in
>some sense, as opposed to Italian, Spanish, or Japanese.

  I guess that's also a matter of opinion. When I was learning French ,I
  had the impression that French was spoken fast. 

>|This is the root of the problem in Japanese and why I say quit while
>|you are ahead. KANJI is probably the reason that makes Japanese so
>|hard to learn. 
>
>This is the root of the problem in English and why I say quit while
>you are ahead. Spelling and pronounciation is probably the reason that
>makes English so hard to learn, even though its grammar is so simple.

 English has only 26 upper case and 26 lower case letters. Japanese uses
 two alphabets with fifty or so characters a piece. These alphabets are
 used in conjunction with the KANJI. But that is a completely different
 topic. English's spelling problems are equivalent to where the kanji
 sounds stop and where the japanese alphabet starts. 

>Yes, I just finished my first semester. Our teachers announced in the
>very first lecture that they did not plan on making the first semester
>any easier than the ones to come, simply because they don't want students
>to waste their time by just taking a single term or year of Japanese.
>

 How many of the 2000 general kanji have you learned ? (I assume you
 can read and write both hiragana and katakana.)

>For any foreign language, 2 1/2 years of intensive study is a
>pretty short time if your goal is to become fluent, to speak without
>a major accent, and to be able to read every-day publications without
>a dictionary. To be able to write in a foreign language takes
>even longer.

  I had 4 years of Japanese classes for the record and use the language
  practically everyday. To read a Japanese Newspaper I think I will 
  always need a dictionary, but given equal experience in French or
  Spanish I think I could fake it better. (Any one out there have
  4 years of Spanish ? What do you think ?)

>And, finally, you can point
>out your personal problems with learning the language (e.g. Kanji),
>but that doesn't mean that other people will have the same.

 Well my personal problem was expressed by every one in my 3rd, and
 4th year class. (Even more so in the lower levels.) Personally I
 don't find kanji difficult. What I find difficult is finding the
 time to memorize the 2000 + 5000 with all their meanings and readings
 as well as just increasing my vocabulary.

=================================================================
 Sorry to drag on a well done subject.

 mark.