Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83 (MC840302); site boring.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!whuxl!whuxlm!akgua!gatech!ut-sally!seismo!mcvax!boring!tomi From: tomi@boring.UUCP (Tetsuo Tomiyama) Newsgroups: net.nlang Subject: Re: Learn Japanese or bust. Message-ID: <6711@boring.UUCP> Date: Fri, 20-Dec-85 16:56:11 EST Article-I.D.: boring.6711 Posted: Fri Dec 20 16:56:11 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 22-Dec-85 01:22:40 EST References: <1791@uwmacc.UUCP> <839@h-sc1.UUCP> <1809@uwmacc.UUCP> Reply-To: tomi@boring.UUCP (Tetsuo Tomiyama) Organization: CWI, Amsterdam Lines: 68 Summary: If you are not sure, please don't use it! Apparently-To: rnews@mcvax It is very intersting for me, as a native speaker of Japanese, to read articles about my language. Although many people are becoming to have correct information about the language (or about Japan, about its economy, about its politics, etc.), still there are a little bit funny things on the nets. I think sometimes we have to say something just not to be misunderstood. Followings are some examples. In article <1809@uwmacc.UUCP> edwards@uwmacc.UUCP (mark edwards) writes: > > hard to learn. In order to read the Japanese newspaper a Japanese > native child must go as far as 9th grade to get the basic Kanji, > into high school to get the rest of the 2000 general Kanji just > to learn to read the langauge!!!!! This is not true with english > or probably any other western langauge. ( It is often heard noted > about the American with the 6th grade Education.) This is not correct. A Japanese child is supposed to learn about 900 Kanji until the 6th grade. To 'learn' means here to get an ability both to read and to write. Until the end of the 9th grade, he/she must read ALL the 'commonly used' Kanji which count about 2500; otherwise, you cannot read a newspaper. In high school, he/she is supposed to read and write all of them. Now, the problem is that he thinks this type of painful learning never happens in learning Hindo-European languages. But, how do you explain irregularity of English spellings? It is almost the same as learning Kanji, in my opinion. This type of just painful learning SURELY can occur western languages. How about Germans, for example? You have to learn by heart "der Buch", "das Kind", etc., don't you? How about English? You have to learn "foot-feet", "man-men", "woman-women", etc., don't you? > > A single Chinese character in Japanese has usually at least two > and the common (irregular or sort of) characters have multiple > readings !!!! Some are often bizarre. Many of the Japanese > This is not correct. A single Chinese character may have two ways of pronunciation (but absolutely has single meaning). One may be an approximation of the original Chinese pronunciation which is very regular; the other is derived from the meaning and expressed in a Japanese own way which might be irregular but this is what you have to remember. Now, the real problem is that there's no linkage between these two. So, they are not *bizarre* at all as you think! > If you are into abuse, try learning peoples names, place names > and historical names in Japanese. Many of these are no longer > general kanji. > Therefore, he is correct in this sense. But, in my opinion it also applies to English place names. I still remember my hard time in London. > (nihonjin no kanajo ga iru mo.) Finally, what is this? I am sorry, but I don't understand this Japanese-look-like sentence. So, please don't use funny things, if you are not sure at all. If he is sure of it, then he must change your teacher. --Tetsuo Tomiyama, Interactive Systems, Centre for Mathematics and Computer Science, Kruislaan 413, 1098 SJ Amsterdam, The Netherlands, Telex: 12571 mactr nl, Telephone: +31-20-592 9333, Usenet: tomi@mcvax.UUCP