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From: mokhtar@ubc-vision.UUCP (Farzin Mokhtarian)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: A question of allegiance (Reply to Oded)
Message-ID: <25@ubc-vision.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 19-Dec-85 21:46:12 EST
Article-I.D.: ubc-visi.25
Posted: Thu Dec 19 21:46:12 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 19-Dec-85 23:21:53 EST
Organization: UBC Computational Vision Lab, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Lines: 63

>>	Why has the government of Israel chosen to spy against 
>>	its closest ally and defender?	
		     ------------------------------
Oded Feingold writes:
 
>    1.  It needs certain information, for example on the capabilities of
> Arab  armies  armed with American weapons, or activities of the American
> 6th fleet.  Example:  Avoiding US patrols while enroute to/from Tunis.
  
It wasn't information the lack of which would jeopardize the security of
Israel. If so, Israel could have demonstrated that and obtained the info thru
normal channels. Surely the U.S. would not jeopardize the security of
Israel by witholding information. So I am not sure how much they "needed"
the information. 
  
>    2.   "Closest"  isn't  quantified.   Are you implying US and Israeli
> interests are identical?  That Israel is a US puppet (or the reverse)?

No, I think a good way to measure that is by the volume of military and
financial aid given to Israel by the U.S. Shall I quantify that? OK.
During the fiscal years 1981-1983, U.S. official assistance has averaged
over $3400 *each year* for each Israeli family of five. Since 1965, the
U.S. has given three times the military assistance to Israel alone than
to 19 other middle eastern states combined. 
  
>>	Isn't that the kind of thing you expect from an enemy or at 
>>	least an unfriendly government? 
		     ------------------------------
>    No, I expect everyone to spy on everyone  else.   The  US  spies  on
> Israel,  too. 
  
I am sorry. I don't know why I assumed being allies implies trust!
  
>>	... if it truly expected a more critical reaction from the U.S.? 
		     ------------------------------
>    Finally,  the  hidden Mokhtarianism bubbles to the surface. 
  
Gee, that's very nice of you Oded. Note the "ism" after my name. I am
finally prominant enough to have my own school of thought! That's exciting!
   
>                                                                  "Israel
> has the US in its nasty little pocket, so it knows we haven't  the  guts
> to  oppose  it."   (You  see,  Farzin,  your  talent for leaving a snide
> interpretation open is only exceeded by  my  penchant  for  making  said
> interpretation.)
  
Good for you and your penchant, Oded, but I think the following "snide"
interpretation is much clearer:
  
  "Continued U.S. aid plays a crucial role in the economy and defence of
   Israel. These people (Israel)  don't seem to be worried about stealing
   (information) from a guy who has been so generous to them. Maybe they
   have influential friends who let them get away with too much." 
  
>    Good shot, though, Mr. Mokhtarian - you sure can leave a sour taste.
   
Yes, it was a good shot and I am not the one who left a sour taste.
  
  Farzin Mokhtarian 
       
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