Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site uwmacc.UUCP Path: utzoo!lsuc!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!whuxl!whuxlm!akgua!gatech!ut-sally!seismo!uwvax!uwmacc!myers From: myers@uwmacc.UUCP (Latitudinarian Lobster) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Re: Myers on nrh on "untrue propaganda" Message-ID: <1840@uwmacc.UUCP> Date: Fri, 20-Dec-85 13:27:30 EST Article-I.D.: uwmacc.1840 Posted: Fri Dec 20 13:27:30 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 22-Dec-85 03:02:20 EST References: <4690@alice.UUCP> <1788@uwmacc.UUCP> <1484@ihlpg.UUCP> Organization: Ken Kopp's Fresh Seafood Tank Lines: 63 > > I also been faced during my brief existence with the > > incontrovertible fact that the United States, since the Spanish-American > > War, has gone out of its way to crush any truly progressive government it > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > has been able to get its hands on. I'm willing to go into detail on any > > of the following cases: the Philippines immediately following the joint > > US-Filipino defeat of the Spanish; Chile in the early 1970's; Guatemala > > in 1954; Nicaragua from the 1920's till the present; the Dominican Republic > > in 1965; Vietnam from 1945-1975; Greece following WWII; Spain just before > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > WWII; Cuba from 1960 till the present; ad infinitum. > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ------------------- > Cuba? Vietnam? Progressive? > I'd have to admit that both Cuba and Vietnam have made a lot of progress. > Progress in making a large number of their people want to live elsewhere. > How can anyone take Jeff Myers' opinions about the Sandinistas seriously > when we all can see what he truly admires? > ------------------- > > Don't you folks see the pattern here, or are you so a part of the pattern > > that it's a part of you? > ------------------- > You mean the Cuba, Vietnam pattern, Jeff? > -- > Bill Tanenbaum - AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville IL ihnp4!ihlpg!tan Well, a lot of people have left, but a lot more stayed. In Vietnam, a lot more died for their country (Vietnam & the US). You probably don't realize, Bill, that the Vietnamese Declaration of Independence (written in 1945 or so) was modeled after our own. Didn't matter much to the mucky-mucks in Yalta -- Vietnam went back to the French, who needed increasing US aid to maintain their hold on the country. We then proceeded to put a bomb crater in about every square mile of south-east Asia. If the US had followed the advice of some of the far-sighted US advisors in the country in 1945, who knew Ho Chi Minh and the people he led, things would have turned out much better for Vietnam, for the US, and for the world. That's the pattern I'm talking about, you yahoo -- systematic quashing of nationalistic, anti-imperialist, Third World movements. As Noam Chomsky points out (and I believe correctly), the Vietnam War was politically a victory for US imperialism, because the massive destruction done to the country insured that Vietnam could not become an economically viable beacon to other countries. Take another, less emotionally laden example -- the Spanish Republic. No aid was given by other countries, including the US, except for the USSR and Mexico. The US government and the French did all that they could to prevent people and supplies reaching the Republicans -- Abraham Lincoln Brigade volunteers had to say they were just travelling to France as tourists when leaving the US. Are ``Third World'' nations just being paranoid when denouncing the foreign policy of the US? -- Jeff Myers The views above may or may not University of Wisconsin-Madison reflect the views of any other Madison Academic Computing Center person or group at UW-Madison. ARPA: uwmacc!myers@rsch.wisc.edu UUCP: ..!{harvard,ucbvax,allegra,topaz,akgua,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!myers BitNet: MYERS at WISCMACC