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From: franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Myers on nrh on "untrue propaganda"
Message-ID: <949@mmintl.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 27-Dec-85 05:32:39 EST
Article-I.D.: mmintl.949
Posted: Fri Dec 27 05:32:39 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 29-Dec-85 01:07:28 EST
References: <4690@alice.UUCP> <1788@uwmacc.UUCP> <1484@ihlpg.UUCP> <1840@uwmacc.UUCP>
Reply-To: franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams)
Organization: Multimate International, E. Hartford, CT
Lines: 67

In article 1840@uwmacc.UUCP myers@uwmacc.UUCP (Latitudinarian Lobster) writes:
>Well, a lot of people have left, but a lot more stayed.  In Vietnam, a lot
>more died for their country (Vietnam & the US).  You probably don't realize,
>Bill, that the Vietnamese Declaration of Independence (written in 1945 or so)
>was modeled after our own.  Didn't matter much to the mucky-mucks in Yalta --
>Vietnam went back to the French, who needed increasing US aid to maintain
>their hold on the country.  We then proceeded to put a bomb crater in about
>every square mile of south-east Asia.

Let's try to get our stories straight.  We did not put a bomb crater in
about every square mile of south-east Asia in support of French imperialism.
We didn't do very much in support of French imperialism at all.  We did
support it officially, but our interests in the French alliance in Europe
were (and still are) far more important to us than all of south-east Asia.

We did do a lot of bombing in Vietnam in support of the government of
South Vietnam.  That government was far better than the North Vietnamese
government at that point (which isn't saying much).

An interesting comparison: while the U.S. was fighting in South Vietnam on
behalf of the government there, there were hardly any refugees.  When that
government lost, there was a flood of them.  The Soviet Union is fighting
in Afghanistan on behalf of its government.  Guess what?  There are a
flood of refugees.

>If the US had followed the advice of some of the far-sighted US advisors in
>the country in 1945, who knew Ho Chi Minh and the people he led, things would
>have turned out much better for Vietnam, for the US, and for the world.

Maybe yes, maybe no.  All we know for sure is that the government he actually
set up is pretty awful.  There are extenuating circumstances, but we *don't*
know what he would have done if unopposed.

Similar things were said about Mao when he took over China, and about Castro
when he took over Cuba.  Similar things were said about the Sandinistas when
they took over Nicaraugua.

>As Noam Chomsky points out (and I believe correctly), the Vietnam War was
>politically a victory for US imperialism, because the massive destruction
>done to the country insured that Vietnam could not become an economically
>viable beacon to other countries.

Like North Korea?

>Take another, less emotionally laden example -- the Spanish Republic.  No
>aid was given by other countries, including the US, except for the USSR and
>Mexico.  The US government and the French did all that they could to prevent
>people and supplies reaching the Republicans -- Abraham Lincoln Brigade
>volunteers had to say they were just travelling to France as tourists when
>leaving the US.

The Spanish Civil War rapidly became a contest between Fascism and Communism.
Once that happened, Spain could not possibly be the winner.  The U.S. was
misguidedly neutral in that war -- if we (or the French or British) had
supported the Republic, we might have saved some sort of genuine democracy.
Unfortunately, the public mood at that point made such support impossible.

>Are ``Third World'' nations just being paranoid when denouncing the foreign
>policy of the US?

No, jealousy has a lot to do with it.

U.S. foreign policy has been far from perfect; but no other nation with
anywhere near our power has behaved nearly as well.

Frank Adams                           ihpn4!philabs!pwa-b!mmintl!franka
Multimate International    52 Oakland Ave North    E. Hartford, CT 06108