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From: franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams)
Newsgroups: net.politics.theory
Subject: Re: Politics and Ethics--Socialism, Libertarianism, and Capitalism
Message-ID: <882@mmintl.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 11-Dec-85 18:55:03 EST
Article-I.D.: mmintl.882
Posted: Wed Dec 11 18:55:03 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 16-Dec-85 19:20:11 EST
References: <1547@hound.UUCP>
Reply-To: franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams)
Organization: Multimate International, E. Hartford, CT
Lines: 72

In article <1547@hound.UUCP> rwsh@hound.UUCP (R.STUBBLEFIELD) writes:
>A
>political system is embodied in a code of laws that define how man should
>act when living in a social context.  Principles which guide man's actions
>are moral principles.  Thus, a political system rests on a basis
>of a moral system--a code of ethics.

This is a half-truth.  One can regard the code of laws in any polity at
any given time as a moral system, but this ignores the way those laws
came into being, and their changing nature.  The laws of any nation are
more accurately seen as a mix and compromise of various moral systems.

Another important point is that no system of laws is a complete moral code.
There are customs and other informal arrangements which form an essential
part of the functioning of the system.  These are not only varying, but
not are not even clearly defined.

>Capitalism is a political system where the social environment supports
>individual ownership of the instruments of production.  More broadly,
>capitalism is the system that protects the rights of individuals.

If you think the right to own the instruments of production is the most
important human right, this makes sense.  Socialists regard the right to
food and shelter as more important.  On this point, I must agree with them.
I support capitalism because it is, in fact, better at doing this.

>The unit of
>value in a capitalist society is the individual.
>Equivocations by some notwithstanding, the unit of value of socialism is
>a group--just as it is for all other forms of collectivism.  The ethical
>base of socialism is the opposite of selfishness--i.e., self-sacrifice.
>There is a point in any collective political system where the individual
>is sacrificed for some collective good.  This can be seen when the state
>initiates force against individuals to achieve some "public good."

You talk about the individual good and the public good as though they were
different things.  The public good is just the aggregate measure of the
individual good.

Any state acts to restrict the freedoms of its citizens for the public good.
A frequent way of doing this is to recognize certain individual rights, and
prevent interference with the rights of one individual by another.  A
libertarian system (which really is what you are advocating) recognizes
property rights as the sole form of rights recognized by the state.  This
choice of rights to be recognized needs explicit justification.

Non-initiation of force or fraud does not supply this justification.
If a person drops something, and someone else, in plain sight, picks it up
and keeps it, there is force or fraud, narrowly defined, involved.  One
may call it force since the first person has a right to the object; but
this pre-supposes property rights, and thus cannot be used to justify them.

>The world is full of collectivist states--especially totalitarian socialist
>ones; but there are no capitalist nations today.  The United States has come
>closest but is now that unstable system known as a welfare state--part slave,
>part free--drifting in the direction of more sacrifice and less freedom.

See above.  There are no pure forms of any kind of system.  The U.S. is
much more free than the Soviet Union, and also much more capitalistic.
Chile is about as capitalistic as the U.S., but much less free.  France is
nearly as free as the U.S., but noticeably less capitalistic.

There is a positive correlation between capitalism and freedom in existing
states.  I do not think that correlation is a coincidence.  But just because
more capitalist is better, does not mean completely capitalist is best.

I see no evidence that the U.S. is drifting in the direction of less
freedom.  I think we have significantly more freedom than formerly --
thanks in large part to the civil rights movement.

Frank Adams                           ihpn4!philabs!pwa-b!mmintl!franka
Multimate International    52 Oakland Ave North    E. Hartford, CT 06108