Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site psuvax1.UUCP Path: utzoo!lsuc!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ukma!psuvm.bitnet!psuvax1!berman From: berman@psuvax1.UUCP (Piotr Berman) Newsgroups: net.politics.theory Subject: Re: capitalism vs. democracy??? Message-ID: <1924@psuvax1.UUCP> Date: Fri, 13-Dec-85 12:45:27 EST Article-I.D.: psuvax1.1924 Posted: Fri Dec 13 12:45:27 1985 Date-Received: Mon, 16-Dec-85 19:51:43 EST References: <261@gargoyle.UUCP> <286@frog.UUCP> <267@gargoyle.UUCP> <1793@teddy.UUCP> <27@cascade.ARPA> Organization: Pennsylvania State Univ. Lines: 69 > > lkk@teddy > >... It is instructive to note that even the > >500th largest bank in the world (in Italy, I beleive) has more > >financial reserves than any countries except the Soviet Union and the > >United States. > > > >The gross sales of Exxon are larger than the GNP > >of most third world countries. > > > >With such economic significance, these corporations become > >quasi-nations unto themselves in the world of international finance. > Stuart > I would like to point out some important distinctions between > corporations and governments. Corporations cannot throw people in jail. > Corporations cannot wage military war. Corporations cannot levy taxes > and alter them at will. > > >When approaches the Chairman of Chase > >Manhattan Bank for a loan, it is the banker who has the upper hand. > > Oh? When decides to default on his loan > from Chase Manhattan, who has the upper hand? The leader>; why else would the Chairman of Chase Manhattan ask the U.S. > Government to bail him out? > In practice, the mutual dependence is substancial. In particular, the banks helped the corrupt elites of Thirld World countries to launder tremendous amounts of money and waste even more. At this moment both foreign and American public is kept hostage by banks: banks resemble giant bicicles: they may stand only when they run, if someone would stop them, the fall will be painful for anyone around. This way the major banks could afford to invest rather recklessly and to wait now patiently for help. As you may notice, there is a continuing trickle of bail out for major banks: the government sponsored loans to debtors like Mexico or Argentina. > >Thus, David Rockefeller has the ability to drastically affect the > >fortunes of millions of people the world over. Was he elected by > >them? No. > > No, he wasn't elected, but he was voluntarily chosen by them. His > customers chose to do business with him, but they could just as easily > have chosen someone else. > > We need a clear definition of what "power" is. Carnes and Kolodney > insist that corporations have "power", but they have none of the powers > that I mentioned above, i.e. enforcing laws, levying taxes, waging war. > What kind of power do you mean? > > Also, what is your solution to this perceived problem? Should we > nationalize all corporations larger than the smallest nation, or some > other equally arbitrary limit? Should we remove David Rockefeller from > his post and make his decisions by majority vote? > > Stuart Power of banks: forcing people to do what they do not want to do. Example: you want to borrow from us, you must deposit here (my personal experience). Imagine that there is no regulations. Then you might have: you want to borrow, deposit here, insure here, use us as a brocker. Or worse: we do not like you, we will recommend everybody not to borrow you. Example two: you do not want a financial chaos, help us (and pay taxes to do it). Depriving you of an asset you use (like a house) may be quite a punishment. Unregulated power of banks could be very destructive. Piotr