Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/3/84; site teddy.UUCP Path: utzoo!lsuc!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ukma!psuvm.bitnet!psuvax1!burdvax!sdcrdcf!sdcsvax!dcdwest!ittatc!decvax!genrad!panda!teddy!lkk From: lkk@teddy.UUCP Newsgroups: net.politics.theory Subject: Re: capitalism vs. democracy??? Message-ID: <1802@teddy.UUCP> Date: Wed, 11-Dec-85 18:14:34 EST Article-I.D.: teddy.1802 Posted: Wed Dec 11 18:14:34 1985 Date-Received: Mon, 16-Dec-85 19:53:19 EST References: <261@gargoyle.UUCP> <286@frog.UUCP> <267@gargoyle.UUCP> <1793@teddy.UUCP> <27@cascade.ARPA> Reply-To: lkk@teddy.UUCP (Larry K. Kolodney) Organization: GenRad, Inc., Concord, Mass. Lines: 86 In article <27@cascade.ARPA> marks@cascade.ARPA writes: > >I would like to point out some important distinctions between >corporations and governments. Corporations cannot throw people in jail. >Corporations cannot wage military war. Corporations cannot levy taxes >and alter them at will. THey don't need the *de jure* ability to do these things, their economic clout gives them *de facto* power. The U.S. government has intervened on numerous occaisons for the purpose of protecting American Corporate interests (Chile, Iran, Dominican Republic). U.S. banks have great influence over the tax policy in countries such as Mexico. United Fruit more or less OWNED Honduras for much of this century. > >>When approaches the Chairman of Chase >>Manhattan Bank for a loan, it is the banker who has the upper hand. > >Oh? When decides to default on his loan >from Chase Manhattan, who has the upper hand? The leader>; why else would the Chairman of Chase Manhattan ask the U.S. >Government to bail him out? No third world leader has defaulted. Instead, most of them have had to eat crow in their countries by instituting "auterity measures," causing great political dissatisfaction. It seems that the disincentives to defaulting are sufficiently great that no politician is willing to risk it. Look, it a simple question of power. David Rockefeller has the power to affect the lives of millions of third world citizens. Very few men in the world (elected or otherwise) have that sort of power. > >>Thus, David Rockefeller has the ability to drastically affect the >>fortunes of millions of people the world over. Was he elected by >>them? No. > >No, he wasn't elected, but he was voluntarily chosen by them. His >customers chose to do business with him, but they could just as easily >have chosen someone else. You mean some other Banker, and then be put in the same situation. The fact remains that most of the third world remains economically dependent on the West (or the Soviets, just as bad), and thus subject to the manipulation by western bankers. Now before you flame me with "Well, thats the price for being poor and undeveloped, we can't all be equal.", please remember that virtually all third world countries were exploited by European colonialists, and that THEIR resources were used to power OUR economic development. > >We need a clear definition of what "power" is. Carnes and Kolodney >insist that corporations have "power", but they have none of the powers >that I mentioned above, i.e. enforcing laws, levying taxes, waging war. >What kind of power do you mean? > I think I"ve answered this question. Economic power is sufficient to get other people to do what you want. Therefore, the fact that they don't have those other sorts of power is pretty irrelevant. >Also, what is your solution to this perceived problem? Should we >nationalize all corporations larger than the smallest nation, or some >other equally arbitrary limit? Should we remove David Rockefeller from >his post and make his decisions by majority vote? Nationalizing the Banks would certainly be a good step. A less exploitative foreign policy would also help (i.e. don't crush nationalistic rebellion, cooperate with foreign government attempting meaingful economic reform, rather than those "favorable towards U.S. investment). -- Sport Death, (USENET) ...{decvax | ihnp4!mit-eddie}!genrad!panda!lkk Larry Kolodney (INTERNET) lkk@mit-mc.arpa -------- Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. - Helen Keller