Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/3/84; site teddy.UUCP Path: utzoo!lsuc!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!gamma!epsilon!zeta!sabre!petrus!bellcore!decvax!linus!philabs!cmcl2!harvard!talcott!panda!teddy!lkk From: lkk@teddy.UUCP Newsgroups: net.politics.theory Subject: Re: capitalism vs. democracy??? Message-ID: <1820@teddy.UUCP> Date: Mon, 16-Dec-85 12:19:42 EST Article-I.D.: teddy.1820 Posted: Mon Dec 16 12:19:42 1985 Date-Received: Thu, 19-Dec-85 19:15:42 EST References: <286@frog.UUCP> <28200382@inmet.UUCP> Reply-To: lkk@teddy.UUCP (Larry K. Kolodney) Organization: GenRad, Inc., Concord, Mass. Lines: 57 In article <28200382@inmet.UUCP> nrh@inmet.UUCP writes: > >>/* Written 12:59 pm Dec 10, 1985 by lkk@teddy in inmet:net.politics.t */ >>In article <267@gargoyle.UUCP> carnes@gargoyle.UUCP (Richard Carnes) writes: >>> >>>I don't think so. Large private corporations, which are basically >>>anti-democratic institutions, wield a lot of power in the US. >>... >> >>With such economic significance, these corporations become >>quasi-nations unto themselves in the world of international finance. > >What does this mean? Does it mean that you believe only nations >should be above a certain size? If so, on what basis do you make >the case? I was not making any prescription for change, simply pointing out the fact that there is little democracy (self-determination) in the world, in part due to the economic hegemony of the first-world over the third. > >>When approaches the Chairman of Chase >>Manhattan Bank for a loan, it is the banker who has the upper hand. > >Larry, I don't think you understand what's going on here. The statement >is trivially true (whenever I offer you a deal, I have the "upper hand" >because you may refuse it or not, but I can't (having already offered it)). Except for the fact the the third world needs the money a lot more than the banks need to lend it to them. > >>Thus, David Rockefeller has the ability to drastically affect the >>fortunes of millions of people the world over. Was he elected by >>them? No. > >Nope. The person who sought out David Rockefeller was not some random >swine who was appointed by the gods to be able to assume a debt in the >name of the country, but the head of some government or other. > >Such governments typically claim to be democracies, and if they act >anti-democratically by selling their economic future to David >Rockefeller (who is, by the way, not the only bidder) then it is >the governments you should criticize, not the moneylenders. Just like, "well you're starving, and I own all the food in town, but you certainly have the right not to deal with me." Freedom entails (among other things) control over your own destiny. If you are constrained by lack of resources just to stay alive, any other "freedom" is irrelevant. -- Sport Death, (USENET) ...{decvax | ihnp4!mit-eddie}!genrad!panda!lkk Larry Kolodney (INTERNET) lkk@mit-mc.arpa -------- Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. - Helen Keller