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From: franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams)
Newsgroups: net.politics.theory
Subject: Re: Newsflash! [JoSH on Socialis
Message-ID: <956@mmintl.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 27-Dec-85 07:50:44 EST
Article-I.D.: mmintl.956
Posted: Fri Dec 27 07:50:44 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 30-Dec-85 06:45:54 EST
References: <266@meccts.UUCP> <4340024@csd2.UUCP>
Reply-To: franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams)
Organization: Multimate International, E. Hartford, CT
Lines: 51

In article <4340024@csd2.UUCP> sykora@csd2.UUCP (Michael Sykora) writes:
>>/* franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams) /  6:59 pm  Dec 16, 1985 */
>
>>Yes, but the result of the political process is not to produce *a* solution.
>>It is to produce solutions to each case as it comes up.  So in a real sense,
>>the process *is* the solution.
>
>I don't believe anyone here advocates substituting another form of rule
>fo democracy.  I thought what we were considering what would be the best
>general policies to come out of the system.  The task for any system,
>democratic or otherwise, is to find the optimal solution, not merely
>to consider alternatives.

I think there are those here who advocate getting rid of government entirely.
This is not "substituting another form of rule for democracy", but it
is getting rid of democracy.

Your last sentence is nearly devoid of content.  The way you find optimal
solutions is to propose possible solutions (as many as you can think of),
and choose the best one.

>>What other means?  So far, the only other means even suggested is the
>>exercize of the autocratic political process.  This has been notably
>>less successful.  (Although this may be an artifact caused by their less
>>developed economies.)  One can only measure opportunity costs and cost
>>effectiveness when there are alternatives.
>
>Again, I am talking about that set of policies that have been and are
>currently in place, not the method by which these policies were decided
>upon.

Again, what other means?  What we have is a case by case imposition of
prohibitions, limitations, and penalties.  What alternative do you have
to offer, and how does relate to libertarian principles?

>>The success is measured by the fact that we have (1) kept pollution under
>>control, while (2) retaining a strong and vital economy.  This is crude,
>>but it is the level of feedback available for most social policy questions.
>
>Without quantification, the above phrase seems virtually meaningless.  
>Of course, it may be extremely difficult if not impossible to measure
>the costs and benefits of pollution policy accurately enough to yield
>useful information.

One can compare it to the hypothesized results of doing nothing; it is clear
to me that we are a lot better off than we would be if the government had
done nothing.  In this sense, the policy has clearly been successful, without
regard to how close to optimal it is.

Frank Adams                           ihpn4!philabs!pwa-b!mmintl!franka
Multimate International    52 Oakland Ave North    E. Hartford, CT 06108