Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site hpda.UUCP Path: utzoo!decvax!decwrl!glacier!oliveb!hplabs!hpda!on From: on@hpda.UUCP (Owen Rowley) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: Oleg Kiselev does not like Charli Phillips Message-ID: <1266@hpda.UUCP> Date: Thu, 2-Jan-86 13:10:51 EST Article-I.D.: hpda.1266 Posted: Thu Jan 2 13:10:51 1986 Date-Received: Sat, 4-Jan-86 03:16:41 EST References: <317@cisden.UUCP> <196@birtch.UUCP> <343@cisden.UUCP> <218@birtch.UUCP> <587@bunkerb.UUCP> Reply-To: on@hpda.UUCP (Owen Rowley) Distribution: na Organization: Hewlett-Packard Co., Cupertino, CA Lines: 99 Keywords: sources qoutes >In article <587@bunkerb.UUCP> garys@bunker.UUCP (Gary M. Samuelson) writes: >>In article <218@birtch.UUCP> oleg@birtch.UUCP (Oleg Kiselev) writes: >I guess even Christian philosophers make mistakes. Saying "in general" Not when that "philosopher" is a Pope, or an instrument of Gods will as described in the "bible".. At least not by orthodox Roman catholic belief! >women were inferior. You appear to think that the ones which thought >women inferior had a better understanding of Christianity than the ones >who thought otherwise; why do you think that? And how about non-Christian >philosophers? Didn't they also, "in general," think of women as inferior? >If so, you can't blame Christianity for an attitude which was prevalent >regardless. You are also speaking of a time when the church was the source of cultural practises attitudes and philosophies for the Masses. The Point is that Yes women were generally thought of as the possesions of men in those cultures that were ruled by theocracys that were run by men. There were other Cultures that were matrifocal wherein woman had equal status as men , but for the most part the church did everything in its power inclu- ding genocide to wipe those cultures out or convert them to their way. (there he goes bringing up those pesky inquisitorial things again :-) ) >First Paul says that every Christian is expected to be willing to submit >to every other Christian. He then gives examples of how husbands and >wives, children and parents, servants and masters are to submit one to >another: > > 5:22: "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as > unto the Lord..." > 5:25: "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the > church and gave himself for it..." Yes lip service to equality .. do you NOT see a difference between being to submit to your husband and to love your wife... It equates the women to the role of being obedient and it equates the man to being the lord.."even as Christ" >Christ gave his all for the church. And husbands are supposed to love >their wives as much as Christ loved the church, a hard act to follow. Where does it say that the wife has the opportunity to give her all and get credit for it in like measure to christ?????????????????????? > 6:1: "Children, obey your parents in the Lord..." > 6:4: "And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath..." Again children obey, Dad (the man of the family) be cool and don't flay the skin off of them when you whip them.. > 6:5-8: "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters > according to the flesh...not with eyeservice, as men- > pleasers, but as the servants of Christ...with good will > doing service as to the Lord, and not to men, knowing > that whatever good thing ay man doeth, the same shall > he receive from the Lord, whether he be bond or free." Once again equating the man to the Master and therefore Lord.. doesn't say the man and his wife does it? >In our culture, we have "employees" instead of "servants" and "supervisors" >instead of "masters," but the principles are still applicable. Here we agree completely....;-) > 6:9: "And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing > threatening, knowing that your Master also is in heaven; > neither is there respect of persons with him." Yeah when you play this God-game no matter how much you do the right things your always under the gun, and of course always have a higher authority to pass the buck too. Give me a group focused on self respect and self regulation anyday! >On the last, that God is no respecter of persons, Paul says this to >the Galatians (3:28) "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither >bond nor free, there is neither male nor female; for ye are all one >in Christ Jesus." Sounds pretty egalitarian to me. Thats like when a bigot says all "name your group"'s are equal to me! doesn't mean squat if the meaning is that they're all inferior toads to be squashed . >because no one that I know of has advocated the practices of the >Inquisition recently, and yet people keep criticizing Christianity >on that account. >Gary Samuelson You havn't been listening very closely, the statements of the Gerry Falwells (who would fry every homosexual in a minute) and Ed Meese whos christian faith figures that God won't let you be jailed if your not guilty. and the whole raft of Armegedden merchants who want to fulfill their prophecy with our charred remains will make the inquisition look like an amusement park if they are not stopped. Lux .. on Owen Rowley hpda!on "the slaves shall serve" Liber AL