Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site cvl.UUCP Path: utzoo!lsuc!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!gamma!epsilon!zeta!sabre!petrus!bellcore!decvax!ucbvax!ucdavis!lll-crg!gymble!umcp-cs!cvl!harwood From: harwood@cvl.UUCP (David Harwood) Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Re: Re: the location of the Temple Mount Message-ID: <1082@cvl.UUCP> Date: Wed, 1-Jan-86 21:40:08 EST Article-I.D.: cvl.1082 Posted: Wed Jan 1 21:40:08 1986 Date-Received: Fri, 3-Jan-86 05:41:27 EST References: <1486@ihlpg.UUCP> <3780117@csd2.UUCP> <173@erc3ba.UUCP> Organization: Computer Vision Lab, U. of Maryland, College Park Lines: 121 Response to a reply ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >From: ayf@erc3ba.UUCP (A.Y.Feldblum) Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Re: the location of the Temple Mount Message-ID: <173@erc3ba.UUCP> > The Book of Ezekial (Sefer Yecheskel), one of the books of the "Prophets" > portion of the Bible, contains a long section discussing how the future > Third Temple will be built and conducted. In it, the prophet specifically > says that the Third Temple will NOT be built at the site of the previous two, > but rather at a significant distance from it(close to, but outside Jerusalem, > I think). Does anyone know whether or not this has generally been accepted > at face value, whether or not it has had any halachic implications on the > status of the old Temple site, or why it is ignored by the "zealots" who > publicly proclaim their imminent preparation to rebuild the Temple at its > former site? There are several differences between what is described in the Torah concerning the first two Temples and the laws concerning the Temple and concerning the Priests, and what is found in Ezekial's prophecies. My understanding is that these differences are not accepted as having halachic validity. There is also very strong Medrashic support that the Third Temple will not be built by human hands, but in a miraculas way by G-d (it is supposed to last forever, and only something of divine origin can last forever), so much of the discussion may be moot. We just have to wait, hope and see. Avi Feldblum ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I proposed building the Ezekiel Temple in stationary orbit above Jerusalem. But since I am a Christian, given the comments by Avi Feldblum, I would like to repeat what I told my Orthodox friend Ari Gross, who sometimes posts to the Net. (I understand that the original inquiry was by his cousin.) What I had in mind, of course, anticipates the time when Israel receives the Messiah, when the Shalom of God is sincerely received, when mankind would want Jerusalem to be capital in a civilization of peace. Then it is possible to rebuild an earthly Temple there which would be everlasting, when we are reconciled to one another and to God. The apostle Paul says this is the purpose of Christ. To clarify matters, I don't foresee building the Temple 'speedily in our time', before the end of this era, so there may be no point in prematurely speculating, as I have, about the 'location of the Temple', or of its 'steeple' (something like 'the Star of Bethlehem', I suppose). Conversely, to prematurely advance rebuilding the Temple before the Coming of the Messiah to Israel would be offensive and self-destructive. However, my suggestion about the 'steeple' of the Temple was partly motivated by the 'visual' metaphors of the prophets about the location of Zion: Besides the Song of Ascent "I lift mine eyes to the heavens, from whence does my help come...," Isaiah and Micah say that Zion "will be raised above the mountains," and Ezekiel beheld the city "from a very high mountain", as before he beheld the Chariot of angels of 'the celestial orbits'. Furthermore, in the final book of the NT, referring explicitly to the same vision of Ezekiel's Jerusalem, says John foresaw New Jerusalem 'coming down out of heaven from God.' Moreover, there were 'the trees of life on either side of the river running through the midst of the city, the river arising from the throne of God'. This visual metaphor may refer to the Milky Way, as if the there were indeed a kind of celestial Jerusalem, alternatively a kind of celestial Christmas tree with many worlds and stars as ornaments. (Please excuse the rhapsody. The Milky Way is suggested to be the original celestial figure.) Returning to earth, and our present reply to Avi Feldblum concerning the supernatural, eternal status of the new Temple, I will observe, as I did before with my Orthodox friend, that this 'Heavenly Jerusalem' is said to have no earthly temple, because God with Christ is the new Temple. This is a somewhat obscure spiritual concept perhaps among Jews, as well as among Christians. I will try to explain this by mentioning a few other similar passages from different NT texts. First, it is said that Jesus foresaw the destruction of the Second Temple, also anticipated his own destruction, saying that the true Temple, the Body of Christ, would be resurrected thereafter on the third day. This is somewhat similar to the idea that the spirit of the Messiah followed upon the destruction of the Temple, also to Jesus' saying that unless he must die so that the spirit of truth should come into the world. Similarly, Paul, perhaps the greatest of the apostles in theology, 'sent' to the Gentiles by 'a great flash of light from Heaven', identified all those who were similarly 'baptised in Christ' with the Risen Body of Christ, which transcends the generations. Finally, the Letter to the Hebrews, identifies Christ with the Heavenly High Priest of mysterious descent, like Melchizedek, who has entered the Heavenly Temple, to offer his sacrifice for our sins. As we know it is the High Priest who enters the Holy of Holies, that of our innermost hearts, to invoke there the Very Name of the Lord, which God alone can pronounce, which is verily like the Lightning, as Paul was found out. Therefore, the High Priest is said to pronounce the blessing, like that of Aaron, upon His people Israel. So we certainly know that the Very Name has become the revelation of Christ in eternity of generations. For this reason, Jesus said, referring to Jacob's ladder between heaven and the earth, above Bethel, the abode of God: "Truly, I tell you -- you shall see Heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending over the Son of Man." As if the 'ladder' were like the staff of lightning on the dark horizon of human racial consciousness, between the clouds of heaven and the earth below -- so is Christ eternally identified with his Living Presence on earth. To this extent, there is agreement with the remarks of Avi Feldblum. I hope my remarks have been informative about the Christian theology, and are not offensive. (These personal views are not generally representative of common Christian opinions, nevertheless I believe they should be intelligible to Jews.) Again I apologize for interrupting your newsgroup with this 'news-flash'. And promise not to again. David Harwood